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Has anyone looked into intalling a traditional e-brake/hand-brake?


coder
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WARNING: Waist of time troll thread: Ya'll dont e-brake!

 

I was wondering if anybody heard of anyone attempting or at least looking into the custom install of an e-brake handle. I will do this project one way or another some day. I will go to great lengths to see it though. I want to keep my '11 LGT for many years to come and I cannot live that long without a real hand-brake. In case anyone is wondering, my reasoning is;

 

1. the limitations of the electronic e-brake; If your battery goes dead, you cannot set or release the e-brake (you can manually release it with the tool by turning the release mechanism under the car 250 times then it needs dealership service to reset it). One of the benefits to having a manual transmission is the ability to push/bump start your car if your battery is dead. On these cars, it would mean a trip to the dealership afterwards to get your parking brake working again.

 

2. There are certain situations (especially on steep hills when maneuvering a trailer or parallel parking) that having manual control of an e-brake helps you control a manual-transmission car.

 

3. Emergency maneuvering. Though I'm not proud of it, I used to drive like an ass-hat drifting all over the place and got quite good at it. Those days are long behind me but I would like the comfort of having that option if an emergency situation warranted it. For those who have never driven like that (finding your car's capabilities and limits) you'd be amazed at what maneuverability is possible. It could even save someone's/your life. A manual e-brake can play a big roll in maneuverability.

 

4. If i see a cop when I'm speeding, I like to use a handbrake to slow down (provided I'm not cornering and the road is not slippery). This make the car squat when braking rather than diving forward like it will when you hit the brakes. Cops see that a mile away. Also if the cop is behind you, the e-brake doesn't trigger the brake lights. Nose-dive and brake lights are a dead giveaway to a cop. You're basically admitting guilt by hitting your brakes

 

I could go on and on about scenarios where I would use a hand-brake. They do call them an emergency brake (e-brake) for a reason. If you cannot apply it while the car is moving then it is only a parking brake (and a crappy one at that in this case). This issue has to be the most horrible design decision I've seen made on a car in a long time. Don't get me wrong, I otherwise love my LGT (aside from the mpg gauge) :lol:

Edited by coder
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a side note/disclaimer: pulling the hand brake while driving on most AWD Subarus is bad for the center differential, drive train, and other parts. Practice in a FWD car in a big empty parking lot if you're going to. Just thought I'd point that out since I arguably just advocated pulling your hand-brake to help you learn your car's limits:lol:
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It's important to note that in the case of a TRUE emergency, our parking brake can be used in a similar fashion simply by holding the button down. I agree 100% that a proper e-brake is better/faster/safer, but it's good to know you have that option, should the need arise.
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I was wondering if anybody heard of anyone attempting or at least looking into the custom install of an e-brake handle. I will do this project one way or another some day. I will go to great lengths to see it though. I want to keep my '11 LGT for many years to come and I cannot live that long without a real hand-brake. In case anyone is wondering, my reasoning is;

 

1. the limitations of the electronic e-brake; If your battery goes dead, you cannot set or release the e-brake (you can manually release it with the tool by turning the release mechanism under the car 250 times then it needs dealership service to reset it). One of the benefits to having a manual transmission is the ability to push/bump start your car if your battery is dead. On these cars, it would mean a trip to the dealership afterwards to get your parking brake working again.

 

Or, you could get jumper cables. But push starting a car is more fun.

 

2. There are certain situations (especially on steep hills when maneuvering a trailer or parallel parking) that having manual control of an e-brake helps you control a manual-transmission car.

 

i've driven nothing but manuals for almost 20 years. never used an e-brake to help me parallel park on a hill. can you even tow with the gt?

 

3. Emergency maneuvering. Though I'm not proud of it, I used to drive like an ass-hat drifting all over the place and got quite good at it. Those days are long behind me but I would like the comfort of having that option if an emergency situation warranted it. For those who have never driven like that (finding your car's capabilities and limits) you'd be amazed at what maneuverability is possible. It could even save someone's/your life. A manual e-brake can play a big roll in maneuverability.

 

Really? In the event you need to make an emergency, you're going to take your hands off the steering wheel and pull the ebrake to make an emergency manuever? That sounds like something out of the fast and the furious. Just make sure vtec doesnt kick in :rolleyes:

 

 

 

4. If i see a cop when I'm speeding, I like to use a handbrake to slow down (provided I'm not cornering and the road is not slippery). This make the car squat when braking rather than diving forward like it will when you hit the brakes. Cops see that a mile away. Also if the cop is behind you, the e-brake doesn't trigger the brake lights. Nose-dive and brake lights are a dead giveaway to a cop. You're basically admitting guilt by hitting your brakes

 

Or, you could downshift. And if the cop is already behind you, its probably too late.

 

I could go on and on about scenarios where I would use a hand-brake. They do call them an emergency brake (e-brake) for a reason. If you cannot apply it while the car is moving then it is only a parking brake (and a crappy one at that in this case). This issue has to be the most horrible design decision I've seen made on a car in a long time. Don't get me wrong, I otherwise love my LGT (aside from the mpg gauge) :lol:

 

Please, go on. I need some more humor in my Tuesday.

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They don't call it an emergency brake. It's a PARKING brake, for parking. And it is great for parking! I like a parking brake that automatically releases when I start to drive away. The hill holder function works great too!

 

You don't need it for parking lot hooning, turn traction control off and give it some throttle, the rear end will come out on its own.

 

The whole electronic parking brake issue has been beaten to death over the past 5 years, yet nobody has replaced it, so it must not really be a big deal. By all means, feel free to chop up your center console and install one if you feel you need it.

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@ pfoyle

Thanks for the useful information. I appreciate that.

 

@ CL21376

Wow. This being my first post on this forum, I was obviously under the false assumption that this wasn't nasioc and that mature adults drive legacies. Oh well. Now I know. I thought that if I didn't explain my reasoning that I would get a bunch of replies just telling me I don't need a hand-brake. In my mind it's well justified. Nobody is going to convince me other wise. I'm glad you found it "humorous" I'll bet it was a real knee-slapper....more like an ego-booster opportunity. I'm glad you got something out of it. If you've been driving manual trans. cars for 20 years and don't see the benefits of a hand-brake then I'll assume your driving experience hasn't been very challenging. I've been driving them for 20 years (well 18 legally) and have found many benefits of a hand-brake.

- Jumper cables? I never thought of that:rolleyes: What if you're somewhere where there is no other cars to give you a jump and out of cell-range. It's happened to me twice.

- Yes people tow with LGTs though it's not recommended which you already know.

- I doubt there is near as steep of hills and tight parking situations as San Fransisco or Seattle there in NC or in OH (I used to live there too).

Downshifting is maybe 1/4 as effective at slowing you down at best.

And yea...I said I was installing a double-handled lever (one on each side of me) and will completely let go of the wheel in an emergency:lol: Now you're providing the entertainment here. Oh and for the record, I'll bet your car looks like it is straight out of fast-and-furious or at least you long for it to be. You're the one who's in a car club lol

 

@rutchard

Thanks for the input.

I know subaru calls it a parking brake and it works for that (aside from if your battery goes dead). I had a '12 WRX and absolutely hated the hill-holder function when trying to parallel park facing upward on a steep hill. You pull forward, stop, then try to coast backward like in a normal car and the brake is holding you. To get the car moving backward, you have to hit reverse (take your foot off the real brake to hit gas and let out the clutch). Now if you stop (or nearly stop) prematurely, the brake engages yet again. Go through these steps for every time you pull forward then back and you end up looking like you don't know how to drive a stick. Try that out in a situation where you need to go forward and backward 3 or more times to get the parking spot and there is a line of cars waiting/honking for you to get out of their way.

I understand what you're saying about not needing a hand-brake to get sideways but it takes more room and sometimes more speed to do so without a hand-brake. A hand brake will still provide way more flexibility in certain situations.

If this issue was beaten to death, I sure can't find any information on it. Maybe the modification has not have been done yet (or at least not known to this community) That's the kind of info I'm interested in. thanks

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So you are planning on drilling holes in your floorpan, fabricating brackets, and fabricating a new center console? How much did you say you were willing to spend, again? I figure $1500 could conceivably cover it if you wanted it to not look like a hack-job. ;)

 

BTW, there is a mechanism to disengage the parking brake if your battery is dead and you need to push-start or tow the car. It's in the manual, IIRC.

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So coder, are you thinking of Rally/Drift style handbrake lever and m/c that hydraulically ties into the existing rear brake lines, or a second set of calipers for the rear and a stand alone system?

 

There are a buttload of levers available for hydraulic setups, just not quite sure where you would mount it without having to fab your own center console or making it extremely uncomfortable for your passengers left knee.

GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold

GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold

GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold

 

Stapp's Law: “The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle.”

 

"Simple incompetence is a far more sinister force in the world than evil intent."

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@ pfoyle

 

@ CL21376

Wow. This being my first post on this forum, I was obviously under the false assumption that this wasn't nasioc and that mature adults drive legacies.

 

Mature adults :lol:

 

You're planning on using your parking brake to make emergency manuevers on public roads. Because in your words, you have experience driving "like an ass-hat" :rolleyes:

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:lol: Those comments reminded me of this.

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8]www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8[/ame]

GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold

GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold

GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold

 

Stapp's Law: “The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle.”

 

"Simple incompetence is a far more sinister force in the world than evil intent."

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If your battery is dead enough it won't release the brake, exactly how is it supposed to power the ecm, fuel pump, injectors...to start the car once you push it. Did you really think that through, it would be cheaper to carry a port-a-start for such occasions.

 

Maybe you should take a step back and reread your OP from an objective point of view and then decide who is being what.

 

There is no reasonable excuse for replacing the e-brake with a manual one period, if safety is your goal then I would bet that subaru's electronic brake is much safer than any home-built/installed hand brake ever could hope to be.

 

I second that the e brake while not the best thing ever, works very well including hill holder-extremely useful especially if teaching a newbie to drive stick.

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Yes I know the center console will have to be compromised lol. I was hoping someone here had done this before and had a solution I could duplicate. I haven't even learned how the factory system works yet but I'm guessing it uses cables that are tightened by the electric motor which actuate the hydraulic calipers. If so, I'm thinking you could just extend the cables and modify the floor board to mimic the common hand - brake design. The hydraulic approach sounds feasible too and worth looking into. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Flegacy, I've push started a few fuel injected cars. I don't see how these cars would be different though haven't tried it. A port-a - start is a good idea for that issue. I wonder how often you have to charge them. Will look into that

Edited by coder
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Actually the rear brakes have a drum system which is operated by cable, parking brake, as well as the hydraulic disc brake and caliper used while driving. I don't think you want to get into the cable system, it is complicated with a motor and cable system wound tightly. If anything, you probably want to go the hydraulic route and tie into the calipers, but that may cause issue with the ABS system. I think mounting up a 2nd set of calipers on the rotors is your only option to avoid messing with any of the OEM systems. Edited by GTEASER

GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold

GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold

GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold

 

Stapp's Law: “The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle.”

 

"Simple incompetence is a far more sinister force in the world than evil intent."

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Mature adults :lol:

 

You're planning on using your parking brake to make emergency manuevers on public roads. Because in your words, you have experience driving "like an ass-hat" :rolleyes:

 

If a justifiable emergency situation arose, yes. I did say that was in the past and I'm not proud of it. You made the assumption. Last time I ripped an e-brake was in 2007 so I'm not eager to do it for fun.

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Yes I know the center console will have to be compromised lol. I was hoping someone here had done this before and had a solution I could duplicate. I haven't even learned how the factory system works yet but I'm guessing it uses cables that are tightened by the electric motor which actuate the hydraulic calipers. If so, I'm thinking you could just extend the cables and modify the floor board to mimic the common hand - brake design. The hydraulic approach sounds feasible too and worth looking into. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Flegacy, I've push started a few fuel injected cars. I don't see how these cars would be different though haven't tried it. A port-a - start is a good idea for that issue. I wonder how often you have to charge them. Will look into that

 

Then you would agree if it has enough power to run those systems it will have enough power to release the parking brake.

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If a justifiable emergency situation arose, yes. I did say that was in the past and I'm not proud of it. You made the assumption. Last time I ripped an e-brake was in 2007 so I'm not eager to do it for fun.

 

What justifiable emergency situation would trigger you to take your right hand off the steering wheel so that you could yank the parking brake so as to implement your avoidance maneuver? I'm serious. In what real world application would you choose this as the best strategy?

 

If you want a traditional hand brake, go for it, your car, your money. But to try and justify it as necessary for accident avoidance is just.... silly.

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^ Well my justification for that is probably "crazy" to most people and I was trying to avoid sharing the "crazy" arguments deep within my mind but since you're genuinely curious... I have been in 2 situations in the distant past (which I'd rather not elaborate much on) where the hand-brake allowed me maneuverability that helped me escape a dangerous situation not necessarily an accident. (maybe not my only option but the more the merrier) Both times I was being chased by another vehicle (both faster than mine, I might add) and I was able to juke and change direction in a small area with the hand-brake then get away in the time it took them to turn around. There you have it..my crazy reasoning. I don't plan on getting in any more situations like that but I'd like to think I'm prepared if something like it were to happen again. I've encountered some crazy S%$t here in CA and in Seattle. Also, driving a nice LGT makes me an even bigger random crime target than before not to mention my sister's deranged husband is claiming he's going to kill our whole family when he gets out :lol:. jk about that last one.. it's actually true but obviously not a valid argument by itself lol. Again, emergency maneuverability is not my only reason for wanting a hand-brake.

 

Anyways, ALL "REASONING" AND OPINIONS ASIDE, I am going to pursue the project and will share my findings.

 

@ Gteaser

Thanks for the useful info. I'm still thinking of bypassing/eliminating the electric brake and essentially attaching a hand lever to the same cables the electronic system once used with an extension or possibly just replacing the cable(s) with longer one(s). I don't have the time or resources to attempt mounting additional calipers. I think I'll save the "tapping into the hydraulic system as a last resort. One might prefer such a solution on a drift or rally build but that wouldn't be very feasible on any AWD car I can afford because of the inevitable damage. If one were converting to RWD, that might change things idk. My plan is to make the system, briefly test it once while rolling to make sure the leverage is there then never use it while rolling unless some situation warrants the damage risk. I'll post any useful info I come across. Thanks for the support.

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^ Well my justification for that is probably "crazy" to most people and I was trying to avoid sharing the "crazy" arguments deep within my mind but since you're genuinely curious... I have been in 2 situations in the distant past (which I'd rather not elaborate much on) where the hand-brake allowed me maneuverability that helped me escape a dangerous situation not necessarily an accident. (maybe not my only option but the more the merrier) Both times I was being chased by another vehicle (both faster than mine, I might add) and I was able to juke and change direction in a small area with the hand-brake then get away in the time it took them to turn around. There you have it..my crazy reasoning. I don't plan on getting in any more situations like that but I'd like to think I'm prepared if something like it were to happen again. I've encountered some crazy S%$t here in CA and in Seattle. Also, driving a nice LGT makes me an even bigger random crime target than before not to mention my sister's deranged husband is claiming he's going to kill our whole family when he gets out :lol:. jk about that last one.. it's actually true but obviously not a valid argument by itself lol. Again, emergency maneuverability is not my only reason for wanting a hand-brake.

 

Anyways, ALL "REASONING" AND OPINIONS ASIDE, I am going to pursue the project and will share my findings.

 

 

Wouldn't it have been easier to call 911 and say a psycho is following me? Or drive to the nearest police station? :confused:

 

Maybe instead of trying to put others on the street in danger you should get a CWP.

 

+1

 

I wish I could qualify. Enough about that.

 

back to the subject....

 

 

:iam:

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ALL "REASONING" AND OPINIONS ASIDE

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n46CtDmKOg]You shut your mouth when you're talking to me! - YouTube[/ame]

 

:lol:

 

Sorry you hit a nerve with this topic, but it's the internet and you've already given us plenty of your "reasoning" and opinion, why do you think you don't have to hear ours?? If you want to do this project fine, but don't try to rationalize it with us either since you don't want anyone else's opinion. :rolleyes: Keep your questions technical and keep the emotion out of it. You're better off ignoring the responses you don't care for instead of digging the hole deeper with vague stories of high speed chases.

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From the service manual, looks like a pretty standard drum parking brake in the rear. Could probably disconnect the factory cable and rig up your own manual system without having to completely shitcan the whole electronic system until you're sure you like it.

 

EDIT: diagram removed, I'm not helping this felon anymore.

Edited by Rutchard
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Save the time and headaches...http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Dipped-Anchors/737341.uts?No=0&destination=%2Fcategory%2FBoat-Anchoring%2F104188680.uts

 

Stop that bitch in a hurry, especially if you hook a tree, storm drain, passing truck.

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