Strizzy Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Got a call this morning from RCV. They got the axle and already disassembled and inspected it. I also sent them pictures of failed axles. So far the trend seems to be the axle bar snaps just before the CV joint. RCV laid out some options and I'm going to get them a few measurements to see is a larger CV can be fitted. Here is an email I received after the phone call, which includes some preliminary pricing. I spoke with a few other engineers and salesmen here and we'd like to give you the following options. Either way you'd have to order a minimum of 10 axles to get this pricing. $225 per bar shaft, so $450/pair or car set. These would be about twice as strong as your stock bars but as I said, you'd probably start breaking the outboard CV which could have very bad consequences. $585 per custom CV joint, so $2790 per car set. These would be about twice as strong as your current axle assemblies. We'd like to upgrade the CV guts to something larger while we're at it, so if we go this route I'd like to know how much room you have for larger joints. If you have the room (4.25" diameter), we could make drive flanges and use 930 CV joints and it would probably be a cheaper total cost and shorter turnaround. Since they would be custom making the CV joints as well, the cost has gone up a bit for a completely custom assembly. I really like the idea of using Porsche 930 style CV joints, so if there is enough room for them, that would be the most likely route we'd take. Hopefully this doesn't scare any of you away. So far, this is our only option and I'm still alright with the pricing for the piece of mind and never have to worry about breaking an axle at the track, towing the car back to the shop, sourcing new or used axles, labor, and the downtime involved while waiting for everything to be shipped. My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnguyenbb6 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 So you're talking about $3200/set assuming we cannot use 930 CV joints? It might be more cost effective to machine the knuckle for STi hubs. On the off chance that these break, it would be way easier to source a new axle. Maybe I'm a bit pessimistic. Mine broke from a rolling first gear clutch kick. I can't imagine actually launching at the strip with a Spec B axle even 2x strong. Are RCV 2x strong axles being used on any DSS axles? I'd be a bit more confident if they were "rated" to 800-1000hp. I'm still interested if we can use the 930 style CV joints. That way, everything is beefier and more affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 After some measuring and more talking, RCV believes stronger axle bars would honestly be our best option. Every broken axle I've seen has been the axle bar and not the CV. Even if they were to do a complete custom set of axles with custom OEM style CVs, the cost would be $2790, not $3200. There is limited space at the hub to fit a 930 style CV. We would need 4.25" minimum. There is more than enough space at the center diff to fit them, though. Since they do have an axle of mine, I will inquire about any possible stress testing of the OEM CV and the amount of force required to produce a failure. I will keep you updated on any new replies. My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I gave them to go ahead to stress test (destroy for R&D) the axle. They agreed that it is the best option to find out where we should go, in terms of upgraded CVs or staying with the OEM and just upgrading the axle bars. Next update will be the results. Those of you wanting upgraded axles, would you prefer just axle bars with your stock CVs, or a whole new upgraded assembly? And what is your upper price limit on a set of either? My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 subbdddd might need these since ill probaly make over 650whp on my new setup...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnguyenbb6 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I'm in for findings on the stock CV strength. I might still be in for the axle bar upgrade but I'm thinking of going another route with STi style DSS axles. They are already a fully upgraded axle rated for 800whp. WRX/FXT/04 STi hubs should allow us to use LGT rotors and retain EBrake function(not sure 5x114 rotors are the same size). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 rear hubs/bearings wont work^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Aren't those cars narrower than LGTs? I suspect the shafts would need to be a little longer. I talked with Dom @ Maxwell Power about upgraded axles from Albins (Maxwell is a dealer) and he said that the shafts rarely break (at my power level anyway) and the joints are the weak spots. DSS would not be my first choice, based on this customer feedback: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1587952 Note that a lot of the complaints are from vendors, not just random people on the internets. DS1, Kartboy, TiC, and 'Foolio' who wrote #24 worked for Rallispec. And it's a shame the pictures are no longer available for post #2, but I assure you the guy who wrote that post had every reason to be pissed. Anyway, thanks for all of the work you guys are putting into this. If there's a solution from a vendor other than DSS I might be in for a set, depending on the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Update from RCV We are making adapters for our torque testing machine to fit both ends of the axle you sent in. It will probably be a few weeks before we can test it. My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 rear hubs/bearings wont work^^^ uh huh - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/conversion-5x100-5x114-3-05-lgt-129874p5.html Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnguyenbb6 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I don't see how it wont work. People have used 350Z hubs and 240SX axles for R200 swaps. I don't see how using a Subaru hub would be that difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Anything can fit with extensive modification. Depends on how much money your willing to spend. Only way I would switch is of it was a bolt on kit. And price was right. Until them I'll stick with 5x100. More wheel companies are making 5x100 wheels cuz the frs/brz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnguyenbb6 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The 5x114 stuff aside, you would be able to use STi axles. DSS makes stronger ones them, OEM replacements are everywhere. The differences in axle lengths are from the different CV ends. The axle can stretch the 1-2cm difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Update from RCV We just finished the adapters and they are being heat treated. We'll probably test your axle first thing next week. My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnguyenbb6 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Nice! *fingers crossed* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 any update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Update from RCV steve, the axle you sent in only took about 2500ft-lbs and failed at the groove in the shaft for the inboard cv boot. This is a very low amount of torque, we could make replacement shafts at least double that strength. Again, you might break other cv or drivetrain components instead once the shaft is upgraded. As of right now, I'm thinking upgraded shafts would be the way to go. From previous emails, they would cost $225 per axle bar, $450 a set. RCV would need a minimum of 5 sets to be ordered to start production. If we meet the 5 set minimum, I would then give them the OK to use their stronger axle shaft to test the CV's strength, giving us the option to upgrade later. What are your thoughts? My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnguyenbb6 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Nice! I'm definitely in for at least one set. I sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Dom @ Maxwell said the shafts tend to last and the joints tend to fail. I already have a damaged CV (or DOJ, not sure which) and intact shafts. Not entirely sure what to think, but I'll wait until I can get the joints upgraded too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xplosivo1 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Great info, thanks for working this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Dom @ Maxwell said the shafts tend to last and the joints tend to fail. I already have a damaged CV (or DOJ, not sure which) and intact shafts. Not entirely sure what to think, but I'll wait until I can get the joints upgraded too. Do you still have that broken axle? My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnguyenbb6 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Does RCV think that a 930 style CV is doable? What will the price be if it is doable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 From the measurements i took, it doesn't look to be doable at the wheel hub, as the CV is inset about a half inch. At the rear diff, we would have plenty of room. Here is a quote from a previous email about the 930 flanges: If you have the room (4.25" diameter), we could make drive flanges and use 930 CV joints and it would probably be a cheaper total cost and shorter turnaround.http://www.strizzyphoto.com/photos/i-WS6WwRz/0/XL/i-WS6WwRz-XL.jpg My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Subscribed for future 6MT/R180 conversion. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Do you still have that broken axle? I'm still driving on it. It makes klunk/pop noises in tight turns. Hasn't gotten worse, but I stopped playing with launch control after it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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