kristian88 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 After our WRX left us stranded in MN for a few days, reliability is very much on my mind regarding Subarus! I have an 05 Legacy GT AT wagon with 109000. Purchased at 60000 and has had reg oil every 3000 and no big F-ups aside from a dealer putting in the incorrect air filter and it throwing CELs. Timing belt has been changed, trans fluid changed, new radiator and plugs. I just found out about the banjo bolt and as soon as it arrives I'll be installing it (sounds like tons o fun) I'm curious to see if the time with the wrong air filter-which was undersized and had a gap at the edges-will have added grit and debris to the oil which may be in the banjo bolt now. A few questions. Should I inspect the turbo internals at same time? Is this difficult? If there is damage I'm guessing it will be obvious with deformed/shiny/missing/flashing red blades? If there is turbo damage, whats the best stock level replacement? I probably want to stay stock level. I used to a/x years ago and had a modded GSR which I slowly returned to more or less stock and enjoyed it more when plain! Most important question: Are there other banjo like items on the LGT that should be inspected/changed? In my experience this car has been wonderfully solid, but the forum is full of the outliers about turbos tossing your bank account into the block. Anything else to watch out for? My mileage is awful in the city, and I drive like a grandma most of the time. I get 25 on the highway, but 15 in the city. Aside from the obvious (tire pressure, air filter etc) is there anything that makes these cars thirsty? Tiny Saudi in the fuel tank? Thanks for the newb advice, really enjoy the car and the forums. I'd really like to keep this and our WRX going, as we both agree that our next cars will not have turbos and be a lot more vanilla. (Although I said I didn't want to mod, I'm always open to hear the arguments for!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjrongo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Banjo filters have been covered just search banjo filters in the 'search this forum'...as for the Turbo if it's not broken don't fix it. Just inspect it if you must but chances are it's fine. My $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian88 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yeah, I had some time while waiting on the WRX to read on issues with the screen in the bolt. Based on volume and the strength of opinions regarding it, this bolt may be the most important bolt in the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Both banjo filters should be removed. The car should not be on the stock MAP it can cause burnt valves. Most of us have replaced the catted up pipe with a catless one. A Cobb AP or a open source tune will give you better mpg. Last sunday coming back from VT, 145 miles later, my wagon read 29.1mpg when I pulled in the driveway. It makes 280whp. It's catless. The vf52 is a great up grade and seems to be more realiably them some others out there. It uses the stock oil feed line, less the banjo filter. IMO dirty oil is better than no oil. I doubt your air filter caused any issues. Where do you live ? There may be a good tuner close to you. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian88 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm in Chicago, it sounds like there are loads of tuners around here but I haven't done any research yet. (It also SOUNDS like there are loads of "tuners" based on the paintcan exhausted sti's in my neighborhood) In a technical trade, but haven't worked on my own car since autocross days, and the ecu "tune" we did consisted of unplugged the battery for a while. I'll search for more info here. The VF52 seems to be another Subaru turbo, will it be as prone to messing the bed as the stock LGT 40? Regarding uppipes, it seems like some people just drill/bash the elements out of their stock uppipe, and others buy an aftermarket version. I'm really all about reliability, but if making the car more reliable involves adding some extra stomp so be it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF_3C2 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The VF52 is a Subaru STi turbo, and is a bit more sturdy than our VF-40. Another good replacement is the BNR 16G, but it will require a new oil feed line and tune. More than likely wear your clutch faster as well. Catless up pipes- you can either pull yours and gut, or pick up a used STi one- all years STi came catless, as well as the 07+ WRX. I just bought mine off NASIOC for $60 shipped- currently one over on AWDPirates for $75 obo. Tuning can either be done via Cobb or open source. The Cobb Access Port will set you back a pretty penny ($350 used, $650 new) but provides "off the shelf" tunes you can apply to your car. Open Source will lead you to doing it yourself or e-tune with a tuner over the internet based on logging. Most Subaru tuners will support either tuning type (Cobb AP vs OS), but not all will e-tune. Stages: 1 - ECU reflash- this is recommended to get off the crappy stock map. No other modification supported or needed. 2 - Inclusion of a downpipe from the turbo, whether it be catted, catless, bell mouth or divorced in style. Requires a new tune, some Cobb AP OTS maps can support certain downpipes and some intake modifications. 3 - Turbo replacement- stock location or rotated with a FMIC. New tunes obviously, going to require time on the dyno to get the most of it. 4 - Engine internals. Skys the limit, or your wallet is. Most normal drivers of turbo Subarus stop at Stage 2. When turbos fail, some cross over to the Stage 3 or 4 if the engine requires rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 The car should not be on the stock MAP it can cause burnt valves. Do you know what part of the tune exactly causes the burnt valves? Too lean of a mixture while tipping in the throttle? Update: Most likely the Closed Loop to Open Loop Delay transition. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian88 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Good info everyone. Current plan is to take care of the banjo bolt next week, and inspect the turbo and uppipe cat while I'm in the region. Condition of turbo will determine what happens next. I quite like the idea of uppipe and tune. Is there much of a performance difference with those two items, or is it just reliability and a gateway to the next stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackPearl Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Try to make replacing that OEM catted up pipe a priority. You can go with an OEM STI or another aftermarket catless up pipe. My up pipe catalytic converter "let go" at about 130k and I got a new turbo because of it. Self proclaimed PNW Craiglist find of the day Champion, April 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Do you know what part of the tune exactly causes the burnt valves? Too lean of a mixture while tipping in the throttle? The major flaw with the stock tune is the attempt to hold 14.7:1 while low on boost. It's hard to be safe, often runs lean a tad and overtime can do damage. Of course 14.7:1 also can be prone to knock, and with advanced timing on cyl 4 it's been linked to early cyl 4 ringland failures. Timing is advanced on cyl 4 because the knock sensor is right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF_3C2 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 A non-catted up pipe is for the sake of piece of mind concerning logevity of the turbo, and I believe it does not require a tune. A stage 1 tune, especially from a local tuner, would be best to avoid the pitfalls of the stock tune. However, I believe even the Cobb Stg 1 OTS map is better than stock, but in my reading on this forum that changes a bit when you move on to Stg 2. If you are not going to mess with Stg 2, ie a downpipe, then getting with a tuner (local or e-tune) or Cobb (do it yourself with OTS) then the Stg 1 is as far as you need once you take care of the banjo filter issues. The Stg 1 will not overly increase the power of your car, but will smooth out the power delivery. When I first did the Stg 1 on my first WRX I noticed the smoother engine acceleration immediately. When I went Stg 2, it took a little longer to notice the power gains, but they were certainly there when I went to pass semi-trucks on the back roads in 3rd gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 A non-catted up pipe is for the sake of piece of mind concerning logevity of the turbo, and I believe it does not require a tune. A stage 1 tune, especially from a local tuner, would be best to avoid the pitfalls of the stock tune. However, I believe even the Cobb Stg 1 OTS map is better than stock, but in my reading on this forum that changes a bit when you move on to Stg 2. If you are not going to mess with Stg 2, ie a downpipe, then getting with a tuner (local or e-tune) or Cobb (do it yourself with OTS) then the Stg 1 is as far as you need once you take care of the banjo filter issues. The Stg 1 will not overly increase the power of your car, but will smooth out the power delivery. When I first did the Stg 1 on my first WRX I noticed the smoother engine acceleration immediately. When I went Stg 2, it took a little longer to notice the power gains, but they were certainly there when I went to pass semi-trucks on the back roads in 3rd gear. Changing the UP will cause the turbo to spool faster. I would be getting a tune for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian88 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 So, a tune after the uppipe is either a very good idea or absolutely necessary? Based on forum research, it sounds like tuner time will probably be around $500 (rough guess, don't know if my Chicago market has different pricing) and a Cobb AP is around $600. Is there a Cobb preset tune that will be a good match for a stock+uppipe car? Any compelling reason to choose tuner or AP? On one hand it would be nice to keep $ in a local niche biz, and I expect theres lots to be learning doing a tune. On the other hand, the Cobb has blinky lights and gauges! Any other issues to be aware of with a GT approaching old age? The more I read about these cars, the more I want to keep this one around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 So, a tune after the uppipe is either a very good idea or absolutely necessary? Based on forum research, it sounds like tuner time will probably be around $500 (rough guess, don't know if my Chicago market has different pricing) and a Cobb AP is around $600. Is there a Cobb preset tune that will be a good match for a stock+uppipe car? Any compelling reason to choose tuner or AP? On one hand it would be nice to keep $ in a local niche biz, and I expect theres lots to be learning doing a tune. On the other hand, the Cobb has blinky lights and gauges! Any other issues to be aware of with a GT approaching old age? The more I read about these cars, the more I want to keep this one around. A local street tune should cost you $225-250. A cobb will run you about $500. Up pipe only tunes aren't common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/reliability-modifications-178342.html Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian88 Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Just wanted to say a quick thanks to those that helped on this thread. I recently took care of some of the nagging issues with my car and everything is great. Pulled the banjo bolt, it was fine with only light grit in it. Replaced the uppipe with catless. The cat in the old one looked fine as well. Tracking down a likely intercooler tank walkabout, and a few other odds and ends and should be good to go! Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Glad to hear it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocinoman25 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Not sure if you're interested. ..but STi Mikey is flying in to tune some our chitown subies end of may at proformance speed shop Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Follow me on IG @chefodiycarguy and @chefo.soriano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Keep a close eye on oil usage, keep the oil level topped off. STi Mikey as a good rep. he should be someone you meet up with. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristian88 Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 For whatever reason my car doesn't seem to drink oil like the rest. It's checked at every gas stop, but doesn't budge on the stick. On the other hand, it must be taking some in as there's a bit of blowby in the intercooler, but it's not like an oilquarium in there. At the next OCI I'm switching to Rotella and getting another Blackstone test, just to check in on the engine as the last one had a few slightly high elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisav Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 For whatever reason my car doesn't seem to drink oil like the rest. It's checked at every gas stop, but doesn't budge on the stick. On the other hand, it must be taking some in as there's a bit of blowby in the intercooler, but it's not like an oilquarium in there. At the next OCI I'm switching to Rotella and getting another Blackstone test, just to check in on the engine as the last one had a few slightly high elements. My car hardly drank oil either and I switched from German Castrol to T6 and have had about the same experience. 2000 miles on the current oil change and I haven't had to add any oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 After our WRX left us stranded in MN for a few days, reliability is very much on my mind regarding Subarus! I have an 05 Legacy GT AT wagon with 109000………. It's not in the maintenance schedule, but checking valve lash would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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