jeffy2.5xt Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 and as far as it goes, my car with similar problem has been doing better since replacing the inlet. not a very good week to compare as the temps have gone up about 20deg. since last week so inconsistent to say the least. i will continue to observe and report on my findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 jeffy2.5xt, Point taken but a question regarding it not showing on logs. Wouldn't the ecu start adding to the fuel trims based off the o2 readings since it thinks xxx air is entering the intake but o2 is saying lean, so ecu add more fuel? Or do these ecu's not do that? They do, but with a faulty O2 that is all over the board, it does not know what to learn. Every time I ever had a leak it was evident in A/F parameters somewhere. That is because you would expect the leak to feed a steady amount of air. That is my theory anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Depends on how the leak is happening. I had to replace my inlet at 100K ish due to seeping coolant from the turbo return tube. I had swapped out the up pipe with a perrin and the stock vf40 to get the cat out of the senario. Didn't think I ripped the turbo coupler, but I did. Rubber was soft and weak from the afor mentioned coolant leak and heat cycles. The leak would not present itself until pulling 10+ boost. Not saying thats what your fighting Fishbone, just saying, so many friggen things it could be. Hope for the best with the new O2 sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I still don't know yet if I should order based on part # I see on here or what Fred Beans lists for this car (no part #, slightly cheaper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I picked mine up at the stealership before my parts guy there got laid off (hasn't been there for a few months) he was giving me a 10% discount. That way I was sute it's the right one. Sorry I didn't dorkument the PN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 That's always the "nuclear option", but I'll give Fred Beans a chance. We're talking a $50 difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I picked mine up at the stealership before my parts guy there got laid off (hasn't been there for a few months) he was giving me a 10% discount. That way I was sute it's the right one. Sorry I didn't dorkument the PN. My dealership matches online with ship. So it's like 30-40% and they like the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Wish mine did. Still unsure which to order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawk618 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 the one i linked fit and looked exactly the same as my oem one. 10' CTS-V, A6, Airraid, 2.4 upper, ID850's, self tuned. SOLD:06' LGT Wagon. BNR16G, Catless UP, DOWN, Hexmods VB, Hexmods diff bushings, BIG TMIC. Best 0-60: 4.651 by AP 1/4= 13.678@100.73 mph, 1.945 60', Automatic transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I am late to the game here, but I am ready to join my stumbling brothers. My symptoms started in December 2013 at Christmas time, when the cold weather arrived and I pumped gas out of state. I thought I got water in my fuel. Refueled in Chicago with reliable gas, things were better. For the past month I also experienced on and off the stumbling effect - only on cruise control, never under manual input. Like FISH, the car is great otherwise, all numbers are there (I have a CarPC with the OBD-2 cable, so for the past 7 years I've been keeping an eye on certain numbers). The only number that varies a bid more than what I am used to, especially under cruise control conditions is the AFR # 1. I did not log the AFR # 1 correction, but the AFR # 1 numbers now vary 13.8 - 15.4 at constant speed (60 mph ~ 2500 pm) and in the past (and compared to past logs, on the same roads), it would only be 14.4-14.9. And no, my RPMs to not oscillate, and the speed stays constant (on cruise control) and is essentially the same as GPS +/- 1 mph on GPS. As others mentioned, car pulls great, never had an issue. I did blow the crank pulley around the 10th of January 2014, after the symptoms started and at first I thought they were related as the condition improved after replacement. I do not drive my car much 1300 miles since June 2013) so the condition came as a surprise. I too have replaced a right front hub a few months back. And I am also ready to replace the front sensor, ordered it from stealership. 2005 Legacy GT, 5MT with front LSD and 35,000 mile old clutch 106,000 smiles Stage 3 with a BNR 16G (30,000+ miles on the current setup; ) I am glad to see that other unhappy souls are pursuing the same solution. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/oscillating-cruise-control-219862p3.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I would be curious what your AF Correction shows. As soon as I swap my sensor I will come back with results. I hope it gets here by mid next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnwlf13 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I don't have any help to offer but my car is suffering from the same. Symptoms first appeared in December of '13. I had a stumble under all driving conditions, acceleration, constant speed, all conditions. I had the front O2 replaced and thought that cured the problem until the first time I engaged cruise control. The stumble is still there but much, much more subtle. I had my tune adjusted by a local tuner, but the stumble is still around. It doesn't appear or manifest under any other conditions. Sorry that got long, if I find anything, I'll report back and I'll be keeping an eye out for any other potential fixes. 2005 5EAT, approx. 106k, stage 2 with custom tune. No other mods drivetrain mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil03mustang Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I don't have any help to offer but my car is suffering from the same. Symptoms first appeared in December of '13. I had a stumble under all driving conditions, acceleration, constant speed, all conditions. I had the front O2 replaced and thought that cured the problem until the first time I engaged cruise control. The stumble is still there but much, much more subtle. I had my tune adjusted by a local tuner, but the stumble is still around. It doesn't appear or manifest under any other conditions. Sorry that got long, if I find anything, I'll report back and I'll be keeping an eye out for any other potential fixes. 2005 5EAT, approx. 106k, stage 2 with custom tune. No other mods drivetrain mods. Might as well replace the PCV valve assembly. Mine got smoothed out somewhat when I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I emailed my Tuner www.tuningalliance.com, a vendor here about this and the possible fuel line mod fix for it. He had some thoughts about what the real issue is. I'm planning on meeting up with him soon so he can see if his fix works. He wrote me a nice response but most of it is "greek to me" something about the cross over from CL to OL. Just a matter of finding a time to meet up with him at his house. He also said his new update will get better mpg too. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Here's a picture of my old and new sensors, side by side http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4727644&postcount=38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawk618 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Here's a picture of my old and new sensors, side by side http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4727644&postcount=38 Not to rain on your parade but when I changed mine I felt an improvement but it seems as the ECU learns the new sensor it goes back to bad habits. I bought a cheap-o Ebay MAF. I installed it tonight. I will know tomorrow whether or not this made any difference. My thought is, if it does make a significant difference I will buy a quality MAF. I have had MAF's on various cars appear fine under all kinds of testing yet they were faulty as the replacement one fixed all issues on these past cars. No amount of cleaning fixed those MAF's. I will report tomorrow. 10' CTS-V, A6, Airraid, 2.4 upper, ID850's, self tuned. SOLD:06' LGT Wagon. BNR16G, Catless UP, DOWN, Hexmods VB, Hexmods diff bushings, BIG TMIC. Best 0-60: 4.651 by AP 1/4= 13.678@100.73 mph, 1.945 60', Automatic transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Not to rain on your parade but when I changed mine I felt an improvement but it seems as the ECU learns the new sensor it goes back to bad habits. I bought a cheap-o Ebay MAF. Good point, but I suppose you have not heard of resetting the ECU ... and not using cheap E-Bay MAFs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawk618 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Good point, but I suppose you have not heard of resetting the ECU ... and not using cheap E-Bay MAFs... I know about resetting the ECU and all about cheap maf's. It made ZERO change. Still got that consistent rumble / stumble 10' CTS-V, A6, Airraid, 2.4 upper, ID850's, self tuned. SOLD:06' LGT Wagon. BNR16G, Catless UP, DOWN, Hexmods VB, Hexmods diff bushings, BIG TMIC. Best 0-60: 4.651 by AP 1/4= 13.678@100.73 mph, 1.945 60', Automatic transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil03mustang Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 don't cruise. stay away from cops. problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawk618 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Has anyone on this thread with the same problem replaced their coil packs? I have to wonder if they get weak as they age. It sure seems like a lot of us with this issue have ~100k miles. Perhaps a bad run of them that are now showing their age? I know how to bench test them but the fact is bench testing devices only proves they meet specifications but doesn't necessarily mean they work properly when installed. I can think of a few cars that exhibited a very similar stumble as my car does. On those cars it was egr passages that had partially clogged on a few ports causing the un-clogged ports to get more egr gasses which made those cylinders slightly miss fire. I know we don't have EGR but I wanted to say this to try and give more detail on the feeling the car gives. 10' CTS-V, A6, Airraid, 2.4 upper, ID850's, self tuned. SOLD:06' LGT Wagon. BNR16G, Catless UP, DOWN, Hexmods VB, Hexmods diff bushings, BIG TMIC. Best 0-60: 4.651 by AP 1/4= 13.678@100.73 mph, 1.945 60', Automatic transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I've replaced 2 coil packs, and those were on the cylinder closest to the turbo, # 1 I want to say? One time it let me down during a Subaru cruise I was organizing back in the day. But it just gave up and a CEL showed up right away. None of us have CELs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 There is no sense in going down rabbit holes, that only compounds the issue and does nothing to actually lead to a resolution. We all know it could be a crapload of things responsible for it, so what we have to do is make an effort to narrow it down to the most likely resolution. I've had air leaks before, I know how the car reacts. The turbo inlet has been inspected and looks as if it's got 40K miles on it, not 100K. Is every stumbling issue caused by a flaky O2 sensor? Nobody is saying that. Right now for those of us that have chosen that avenue to tackle the issue have done so because that's where the evidence suggests needs to be done. My sensor should be here today and I hope I can tackle it tomorrow and come back with results. f1anatic, what sensor did you order? Did you use the OEM part # that's been referenced to here? How does your car drive now? Have you gotten a chance to look at A/F Correction? Is it steady? I looked at mine yesterday again and yep, it is all over the place, literally jumps from the max negative correction possible into the max positive within a fraction of a second. I am tempted to blame Marvel Mystery Oil which I have started to add to the fuel about 2 months ago. I believe it was the straw that broke the camel's back. It certainly fits with the timing if it turns out my O2 sensor is the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I have not driven the car. I drove the Jeep to get it washed and that's it. during the week I take the train to work. I will report this week-end inclusive of data logging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I may beat you to it. The sensor was delivered today, I may get a chance to tackle it tomorrow before I head to work. I hope to god I ordered the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Replaced O2 sensor, reset ECU, took car for a spin, no change, problem is still there. Came back home, took out the MAF sensor and gave it a thorough cleaning. Went back on the road, small change. The A/F Correction settled down and it now seems to stay within +- 8% or so. It will still spike up above 10% but does so rarely. This correction is still going on in the background at normal cruise and I think the car only stumbles when cruise control is on because the ECU is probably trying to respond to this oscillation by changing the pedal input. I came back home and pulled the MAF again and this time I soaked it with rubbing alcohol and took a swab to the delicate interior. I removed some more dirt and haven't gotten a chance to drive the car again. I checked under the hood with a flashlight and a mirror again. I can find no torn hoses, the inlet looks fine, all the vacuum lines are hooked up. Can the MAF be flaky? I was under the impression it either works or it doesn't. I don't want to keep throwing money at this problem so I'd like to narrow it down some more. At this time, it looks like having cleaned the maf did alleviate the problem a bit. Is any AF Correction normal? To what extent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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