Brisvegas

Maybe it's just me, but I would have thought that is a reasonably important factor in car ownership, so it doesn't sound like too much of a "debate" to me ....

Thanks for your posts. Glad you are a happy "Zoom Zoomer"

Surprise Surprise ... the stealership caved in My bet is they are also bluffing on their factory finance as well .... but that's something you will have to decide .... but don't let that stop you from fighting for any extra options you want .... just don't let them walk over you with their BS by saying things like " you got the best deal and we are losing money so we can't do anything else for you." If that car was in the showroom unsold for 6 months, then they will do anything (within reason) to clear it off their books.

Now that's what I call A ROAD TRIP !!!!! After that journey I think you would be the perfect person to review your particular model ..... I reckon your "larry score" would be a lot more accurate than a "doug score"

I agree with all of the above ... and I would add," no turbo" in my personal preferences as well

I'm not sure if there is any legit comparison between the car market in USA and here in Australia, but the car market over here is very flat at the moment, and a $1300 reduction off list price would seem to me to be on the small side, especially on a car that has been sitting on the showroom floor for 6 months. $30K wouldn't be my "starting point" for negotiations. Whilst the following video clip is obviously aimed at Aussie car buyers, I think the basic rules depicted for getting the best deal at a dealership apply everywhere.

Listen to that part

Thanks for the explanation Doug ... I get your main point, and I have no problem with it. I am not a "spirited driver" (if that means taking corners hard) but I do a lot of straight line highway driving (at allowable high speeds) and my vehicle, with no after market sway bar, drives as straight as an arrow.

Sorry to appear abrupt Doug ... but IMPO that comment is ridiculous. Whilst you might get some sort of support to that statement from a very "tiny section" on this forum, and I take on board the comments from others from the more constructive larger forum section who might consider that handling is "improved" by adding a sway bar ... to even suggest that "these things are dangerous on the highway" is ignorant in the extreme. I don't know what your driving habits are ... and perhaps if you are the sort of person who gets a buzz out of going full bore around corners, then maybe you would be somewhat disappointed in your vehicle .... but if you wanted a race car then you should have looked elsewhere.

I'm not sure why you would play the guesssing game ?? ... just take it to the dealer and get the problem logged.

maybe the answer is somewhere amongst this lot http://www.wardautomotive.net/blog/bid/168772/Why-does-my-car-get-worse-gas-mileage-in-the-winter https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml https://www.boston.com/cars/news-and-reviews/2016/01/22/how-cold-weather-kills-your-gas-mileage-and-what-to-do-about-it https://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/12/greenlings-why-does-mileage-drop-in-winter/

This is exactly the problem that myself and ammcinnis commented on in an earlier post ... the fact that certain dealerships either don't read the manual ... or for their own self serving reasons, deliberately choose not to follow the manual. Again I will say that the overiding factor in most cases is to ensure that owners do the specified regular oil changes, rather than the actual type of oil used .... but I agree with your comment that there is a bit of disconnect there.

I guess that depends on your definition of "few" and "require." The following is taken from this link https://www.angieslist.com/articles/synthetic-motor-oil-better-your-car.htm " .. Whether or not synthetic oil is right - or required - for your vehicle first depends on what type of vehicle you drive, mechanics say. New and late-model vehicles from European makes such as BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and Audi typically require the use of full synthetic oil. Bell adds that certain new vehicles from Subaru, some Hondas and Toyotas (typically hybrids), and some high performance cars also require synthetic oil. ..." And when the recent post from Johnm304 is taken into account .... if owners "require" optimum engine performance they should use synthetic. Again, I repeat, I am not necessarily a "synthetic oil pusher" ... but with respect, I think the statement in your post is a bit too general.

Until recently, I wasn't aware of the push belt driven CVT's. I am not an engineer, so obviously my opinion is baseless, but after watching the following videos, the push belt design does not fill me with confidence in regards to longevity ... and whilst there has obviously been plenty of discussion about the longevity of Subaru's chain style CVT's ... I know which one I now prefer

Whilst with respect I think your list of benefits of Synthetics is pretty short (refer the link below) ... I agree that it's not worth stressing over the use of conventional or synthetics, provided regular oil changes are carried out. Like with most issues concerning my vehicle, I have done the research on engine oils and made up my mind from the beginning what my preference was going to be .... I just found it a bit odd that my owners manual (unlike the 2018 version as tumbleweed has pointed out) is strangely silent on the possible options. If I was going to be a bit cynical I might suggest that the reason they do it is perhaps because they want their smaller dealerships not to have to carry both conventional and synthetic, and therefore these dealerships can just promote conventional. As I posted previously, at my very first service, my dealership did not carry synthetic ... but now they do. https://www.idrivesafely.com/defensive-driving/trending/synthetic-oil-vs-conventional-oil

Thanks for that ..... that is what I would call definitive. My 2016 manual, for what ever reason, does not say that. Yesterday I actually rang one of the local dealers nearby and asked the question regarding what is the recommended engine oil for my vehicle and why it wasn't stated in the manual and he was surprisingly honest and said "because they want you to ring the dealer."

Can you tell me what your manual says. I have consulted my owners manual and whilst it certainly specifies a grade of engine oil, it does not specify either conventional or synthetic. Mine states .... " Always use the Subaru approved engine oil. For further details we recommend that you contact your Subaru dealer. If the approved engine oil is unavailable, use the alternative engine oil described on the next page ..." On the next page that they refer to, it merely mentions the necessary API or ILSAC certifications. I don't know about you, but I would hardly call that a definitive or authoritative answer to the question of whether conventional or synthetic oil is the "approved" option or not. And leaving it up to the discretion of a dealer would again not be authoritative from my experience, because if you rang 6 dealers and asked them the question, I doubt very much if you would get a unanimous answer.

Coincidentally I'm currently watching a video series on replacing a Subaru head gasket. If you fast forward to the 28:50 sec mark you will hear the mechanic comment on Subaru valve chatter.

I've been using synthetic from day one. The following article claims synthetic is "required' in some Subaru's ??? ... I'm not sure that is totally correct ... but it's what I prefer to use. When I first bought my car 3 years ago, my local dealer did not stock synthetic, which wasn't a problem for me because I brought my own oil ... but not long after that they started stocking it ... so I don't know if it was a change in Subaru oil policy or not ??? https://www.patriotsubaru.com/synthetic-oil.htm

I have the same car, same year, and with a little less mileage ..... just do what ammcinnis says

You will get many opinions on this topic There are quite a few members who will swear by sway bars, and then there are others who haven't installed them. I belong to the second category. I have never felt any "sway" problems or had any trouble keeping the vehicle in straight line in my 2016 3.6R from the day I bought it .... but then again I do drive like a grandma I guess

Laz, I understand where you are coming from. Whilst I haven't had the similar dealer problems that you mention, I do have some concerns about letting the dealer "practise" on my car should I decide to change the CVT fluid. On a recent normal service at the dealer, I spoke with the guy I deal with (who by the way I think is a good guy) ... but when I asked him about his thoughts on CVT fluid changes he said "we don't really recommend them, but we will do it if you wanted it done." I gathered from that comment that they didn't have a lot of experience in the procedure, and I made up my mind at that point that if I ever decided to do it, that I'd prefer to go to an independent Subie workshop that I had researched, that actually recommends the CVT service and has good reviews from their customers.

Could you post them. I like to see them, and I'd guess others would as well. As has been mentioned, driving conditions and other factors might well come into play ... but despite that, I think the lab results would be interesting.