SpecBamf41 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I only read the first page and let me set this straight. Openvs close is not the problem. Compression is. You can't boost a ej25d motor. You can however use the block with the proper internals to run 10-15 pounds safely. My ej20k open deck is running 17-18 psi very well. And making near 280whp maybe more. But I also notice you talk about this motor build and swap one sided. What are your plans for tuning? Piggy backs are hell on boosted na ecus and if your planing on useing a sti ecu then Your better off just doing an sti swap all at once. Or if you stuck on building a motor then I would get a standalone setup and running your current car before you swap the motor in and try tuning it. That's what I did on my last car. Sent from my S3 BNR18g on 93oct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankdeluxe Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 I only read the first page and let me set this straight. Openvs close is not the problem. Compression is. You can't boost a ej25d motor. You can however use the block with the proper internals to run 10-15 pounds safely. My ej20k open deck is running 17-18 psi very well. And making near 280whp maybe more. But I also notice you talk about this motor build and swap one sided. What are your plans for tuning? Piggy backs are hell on boosted na ecus and if your planing on useing a sti ecu then Your better off just doing an sti swap all at once. Or if you stuck on building a motor then I would get a standalone setup and running your current car before you swap the motor in and try tuning it. That's what I did on my last car. Sent from my S3 Thats what I thought. As long as I have the proper compression I shouldn't have a issue with running around the 12 psi range. I have been around for a couple honda turbo builds and those motors were never even kinda indented for boost but if you change the compression and put in good internals they take it like a champ. The tuning side of things is still in the works. I would love to go standalone but I have a hard time justifying that $1k+ price tag. So really, I have no idea what I'm doing for tuning. I'm leaning more and more toward picking up a STI motor on ebay and then playing with it from there to get my power where I want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Wow... okay. You can't boost a ej25d motor. You can however use the block with the proper internals to run 10-15 pounds safely. My ej20k open deck is running 17-18 psi very well. And making near 280whp maybe more. Thats what I thought. As long as I have the proper compression I shouldn't have a issue with running around the 12 psi range. I'm leaning more and more toward picking up a STI motor on ebay and then playing with it from there to get my power where I want it. There's a reason I said the 25D is terrible for a turbo build. 15 PSI is close, but not close enough to reach your 250 WHP goal with any long term reliability regardless of the lower end internals. 12 PSI will obviously yield even less. EJ205's have a 92mm bore, while 2.5 motors have a 99.5 mm bore. That's a large difference in wall thickness. But, regarless of open vs semi close vs close deck, WHY would you spend the money on upgrading the internals of a motor that has no potential when you can have a 255/257 for less money after rebuilding it? And the 255/257 have better top ends by far. I'm just saying.... The tuning side of things is still in the works. I would love to go standalone but I have a hard time justifying that $1k+ price tag. So really, I have no idea what I'm doing for tuning. Going turbo, will cost you at least $400 to $500 to $1,200 for the ECU and electronics. At the least, you have to buy a WRX/STi/FozzyXT/LGT/OBXT ECU and engine wiring harness and have it merged. Having the turbo harness merged with the vehicles stock harness will cost at least $600. Personally, I think this is the best route as it's easier and just as able to be tuned as a standalone system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankdeluxe Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 Wow... okay. There's a reason I said the 25D is terrible for a turbo build. 15 PSI is close, but not close enough to reach your 250 WHP goal with any long term reliability regardless of the lower end internals. 12 PSI will obviously yield even less. EJ205's have a 92mm bore, while 2.5 motors have a 99.5 mm bore. That's a large difference in wall thickness. But, regarless of open vs semi close vs close deck, WHY would you spend the money on upgrading the internals of a motor that has no potential when you can have a 255/257 for less money after rebuilding it? And the 255/257 have better top ends by far. I'm just saying.... Going turbo, will cost you at least $400 to $500 to $1,200 for the ECU and electronics. At the least, you have to buy a WRX/STi/FozzyXT/LGT/OBXT ECU and engine wiring harness and have it merged. Having the turbo harness merged with the vehicles stock harness will cost at least $600. Personally, I think this is the best route as it's easier and just as able to be tuned as a standalone system. 25d isn't happening for sure. 22t would be fun but hard to find around here. 257 is quite possible, I'm looking around at those right now. 205 is also a possibility, I'm just trying to figure out all of my options before I start buying parts. The more input the better if you ask me. LGT/OBXT are fairly easy to find parts for here so getting one of those ECU's isn't super hard for me. However, having a standalone for just a little bit more then merging might be a good route. I guess its a good thing I asked all the questions I did so that I can find out all these hidden costs now and not while I'm in the middle of the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 205 heads w/port work, ground to 2.2 bore, valve springs, & cams. 222 block w/turbo internals, 205 water & oil pump. 222 MLS head gaskets. 205 wiring harness merged with current Legacy harness. Easy way to power & high revs plus pretty thick cylinder walls. Going after the current 2.5 turbo units are good too if you want that extra TQ to pull you out of the hole & around the corners but the cylinder walls are thinner than the 2.2 unit. Still, ANY EJ25 block is pretty tough & the semi closed decks take that a step further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 All EJ25 motors have a bore of 99.5 and all EJ22 motors have a bore of 96.9, which is only 2.6 mm difference. Being a semiclosed deck, it more than make up for that difference in regards to there stock build capability. The weak point of the 255/257 motors is the pistons. They are definitely something on the list you'll want to upgrade if, in the future, you plan on making more power than you're currently looking at. Open deck EJ20 motors handle a decent amount of power because the internals aren't too bad and the bore is only 92 mm. Quite a lot smaller than the 2.2 and 2.5 motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecBamf41 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Standalone options way under a grand include a megasquirt ecu for under 300. Plus build hours. Plus a wideband. Done. 500 dollar basic standalone with tons of future exspanion options. Sent from my S3 BNR18g on 93oct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankdeluxe Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 A 22t just popped up around here for $1k. 124k on it out of a 92 ss. Worth it or a little high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It's really hard to say. It depends on the area and the condition of the motor. But, I can say that I wouldn't pay any more than $1k for a non-rebuilt 22T. I'll let others chime in, as Kyle and Monkey have more experience buying 22T's than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 If it's complete and runs well id say its worth it.. although id say these are worth $800, max... i just sold mine for $500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Just the block is going for $750 on nasioc these days -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 the block is all that's really important to most people buying one anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 It's kind of steep but it depends on how bad you want one. I split one of my 22Ts w/150k or so and the bearings looked new. It's a cool motor but if your power goals aren't too crazy you can just use a 22e for a lot less and with the money saved use that for forged internals. STi rods are cheap and reliable up to 400 whp at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankdeluxe Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 If it's complete and runs well id say its worth it.. although id say these are worth $800, max... i just sold mine for $500 I would pay 500 no questions asked. He says it was running good but its also a craigslist deal do I could easily get burnt on it. Just the block is going for $750 on nasioc these days Thats all i really want from it anyway. I really don't want to be running those heads at all. It's kind of steep but it depends on how bad you want one. I split one of my 22Ts w/150k or so and the bearings looked new. It's a cool motor but if your power goals aren't too crazy you can just use a 22e for a lot less and with the money saved use that for forged internals. STi rods are cheap and reliable up to 400 whp at least. Not bad enough for the risk of it not running or being blown. As per the rest of this thread, a turbo block is the way I need to be going with this build. I have a 22e already, but I have been advised to just get the right block to start with and do it right if I'm going to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 It's kind of steep but it depends on how bad you want one. I split one of my 22Ts w/150k or so and the bearings looked new. It's a cool motor but if your power goals aren't too crazy you can just use a 22e for a lot less and with the money saved use that for forged internals. STi rods are cheap and reliable up to 400 whp at least. oh man, i had the craziest plan for that 22t, im really sad it didnt end up happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankdeluxe Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Just bartered him down to 700 complete for it. I think thats a sign that I better get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Attain the 22T block if you want good, big power down the line but keep the 22E block around just in case you need a spare. All EJ22s will not be as plentiful in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankdeluxe Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Attain the 22T block if you want good, big power down the line but keep the 22E block around just in case you need a spare. All EJ22s will not be as plentiful in a few years. Yeah, i'm keeping my 22e just in case something bad happens and I need a motor to pop in it. However, 22e's are a dime a dozen around here. I could fill a garage with them in a couple weeks just doing junkyard runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I know nothing about the 22t blocks but could it be used for n/a applications if 222 rods and pistons were used. My thinking is the closed deck for strength and longer stroke and pistons for compression....and if I have opened myself up to ridicule then your welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 lol 2.2 and 2.0 motors have the same stroke already. It's the bore that makes the difference! 96.9mm VS 92mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I thought it was the other way around :0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Nerp 2.2 = 96.9 2.0 = 92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 People bash the 22T heads all the time. With a pnp, 22e valves, fresh springs, etc., they are very reliable and quick. Non interference too. Delta cams! Good heads they are. I'm only suggesting the 22e as an alternative to the the 22t. If you can get one do it. I considered selling one of mine to fund building a 22e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Phase 1 SOHC heads are good for low-end pickup & the PnP work to the ports will stretch out the powerband more. I won't use them because the Phase 1 DOHC heads are superior in terms of volumetric efficiency & midrange power. A little less TQ on the low means there is less of a chance to break things. Still, if you're auto crossing or driving in the cities, there is nothing that can outdo SOHC. Low-end pickup means that you can get up to speed fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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