nicd Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 WELL HERE ARE THE NUMBERS ON THE SHOCKS ONLY WHICH DOES HELP SOMEWHAT BUT WE NEED THE SPECIALIST TO INTERVENE TO EVALUATE THESE GRAPHS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Actually, I think the blue graph is shock piston travel speed and the correlating forces for bump and rebound. As for what that trace looks like compares to others (BMW, Koni, etc) I have no idea. How did you get them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicd Posted July 14, 2004 Author Share Posted July 14, 2004 They were sent to me by the Bilstein technical support in Germany. This tells us how well the shock alone works under various loads right? He actually pulled up all the specs on the Subaru shock. he also told me that if there is anything else i need to know to just ask him. Does anyone have any specific questions. The coil that they use on this shock is made to Subaru specs by eibach. the rates for the eibach springs have been posted but untill we have similar data on our stock setup. This seems to be moot. I guess I will have to just install them and take a ride :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Somewhat under various loads, but mainly different piston speeds. Low speeds are generally from something like body roll or brake dive. High speeds result from bumps or potholes. Two different tunings, both for rebound and bump (compression)... hence 4-way adjustables in high-end race shocks - you can adjust high-speed bump and rebound, and low-speed bump and rebound. I'm curious what the stock spring rates are in comparison to the JDM springs you have. And yeah, get to installing them! :D So what make you seek out a guy from Bilstein in Germany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicd Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 Well no one in Japan or the US would give me any data on the shocks. The big mystery remains as to what do we have as a stock setup on the GTs up to now we have no data, with SOA or SOC refusing to release this secret information. So I sent a picture of the shock with the serial number to my Bilstein contact and he pulled the graphs for this shock they prepare for Subaru. As for the shock rate he told me that the 46mm shock is only made with 3 various specs. At this point I will wait till we get more data putting them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Can you get the specs for the JDM GT, which is supposed to be somewhere in between the USDM and the JDM Spec B? And once you do that, can you tell us what all this stuff means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicd Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 Very very difficult info to get. We will see what we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 What about fitting the JDM bits to your car?? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicd Posted July 21, 2004 Author Share Posted July 21, 2004 Not yet tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I also would like to see a comparison of the difference between JDM GT Bilsteins and JDM Spec B Bilstiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 [quote name='kanoswrx']I also would like to see a comparison of the difference between JDM GT Bilsteins and JDM Spec B Bilstiens[/QUOTE]+1 but nicd hasent posted in 3 months :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 as well as a graph of the stock USDM shocks for a baseline as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 might be tough to get numbers for a KYB strut from bilstien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Well, not really. Just have to find someone with a shock dyno. Truechoice in Ohio has one, and I'm sure there are others like Ground Control. Just like an engine dyno, we just need an example of stock, and Spec-B and/or JDM GT. We can they compare the shock dyno traces against one another. All we need are examples of all three shocks... which admittedly might not be easy to come by as everyone wants them on their cars to be actually driving. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wangspeed Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Thanks for the graphs. This is the best data on the suspension forum I've found to date. Those graphs look like they're a bit mixed up though. The lines are mislabeled. If the bump curve was higher than the rebound, your kidneys would probably be bruised and battered. Also, it's lame that they didn't use more data points, particularly on the low speed stuff. What is this, "My First Shock Dyno"? Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I think you may have something about compression/rebound being reversed - these are the Tokico rates, they're opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wangspeed Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Reading shock dynos, 101: [url]http://www.koni-na.com/presentations/civic/[/url] Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eHoward Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 that's what i was thinking. [quote name='racerdave']as well as a graph of the stock USDM shocks for a baseline as well...[/QUOTE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsalicru Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I have a friend that works at Eibach... I've never asked him but Im sure he'd put a set of shocks on the dyno for me if I asked. "some say, his arms are made of coiled adamantium fibers. And that he tops his cereal with nuts and bolts. All we know is, he's called the Jose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wangspeed Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Lee Grimes @ Koni has a standing offer to dyno test any competitor's shock that he has not yet tested. All you have to do is pay for shipping. Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB Lee Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 [quote name='Wangspeed']Lee Grimes @ Koni has a standing offer to dyno test any competitor's shock that he has not yet tested. All you have to do is pay for shipping. [/quote] Actually, I have already been here for nearly a year under OB Lee and not the CRX Lee that many know me by. My wife has an '05 Outback wagon 5 speed that is a fine car except that I swear it is the automotive equivolent of a bobble-head doll. Luckily I rarely drive or ride in it because it is so rolly and floppy that I start to get seasick in it. I would very much like to make a Koni project out of the Legacy GTs and Outbacks especially with our new FSD technology but there are several manufacturing obstacles that must be overcome (front strut stamping component availability) in addition to proving that there is sufficent market interest to justify the development and production. No doubt the car needs them bad, just creating a strong enough business case to make it happen. I'll contact my counterpart in Japan and see what interest they have there ars well. With luck, maybe we can generate enough interest to make it happen. In the meantime, I have been periodically looking for a used set of front struts from an Outback or Legacy GT that I can study and cut open to make a prototype set from. I hear rumours that Subaru is very much a "parts bin" company so it might be interesting to see how different the WRX inserts that we make are. I'm having lunch today with another member of this board with a lowered but stock dampered GT wagon so maybe we can put together something. BTW, I agree with Warren that the Bilstein dampers graphs are probably marked wrong and that bump is in fact the lower of the curves and not making the higher forces. The graph looks pretty typical of many commoin Bilsteins I have seen. The car would ride pretty roughly if it had that much compression damping and that doesn't make sense on a car with plenty of compression stroke available. Every now and then a manufacturer might run high bump forces is a car has limited compression travel and they are desperate to keep it off the bump rubbers (ala '06 civic Si and most Eclipses). Even though they don't show the low speed section of the graph, by projecting the curve one can see that there isn't much there in the way of degressivity or low speed rebound damping. This is shown in the car's constant general wallowing and rocking motions especially when the car body is moving over subtle motions. I have not seen a graph of the normal OE dampers but would expect that these Bilsteins don't make a great deal of change in that effect. The Tokico graph shown above does begin to show some degressivity in the very upper end of the adjustment range in the low speed ranges although it still doesn't build much actual force. From the looks of it, there is so very little force especially at low speed in the softer adjustments that I can't imagine anyone ever using these and not being adjusted near the max setting. If anyone has some used front struts they will part with, let me know. This will be my own out of pocket project situation (I'm desperate for better dampers too) until I can make a real business case out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 PM PatagonianGT and see if he has his still!!!!! Ted I have Koni inserts in my other car and love them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 [quote name='jsalicru']I have a friend that works at Eibach... I've never asked him but Im sure he'd put a set of shocks on the dyno for me if I asked.[/QUOTE] ask him when the Eibach made SPT springs are going to be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wangspeed Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Nice, glad to see you on here Lee. For the folks that don't know, Lee Grimes, probably among other things, manages the Motorsports department over at Koni of North America. I went through my phase of JDM bling love, but the more Koni setups I drive on track/street the more I realize how good they can be, especially if customized. There's a huge amount of suspension knowledge in this man, so listen up! Lee, I'm picking up an 05 Legacy GT on March 18th. I used to have an S4, but they're too expensive. Subarus are more reliable anyhow. Did you create the valving for the Vortrag guys in the S4 days? I had a coilover kit from them on my S4, and it handled street/track quite nicely. Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB Lee Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 [quote name='Wangspeed']Did you create the valving for the Vortrag guys in the S4 days? I had a coilover kit from them on my S4, and it handled street/track quite nicely.[/quote] I do recall your having the S4. Yes, I did the valving development on Vortrag's parts. The company wasn't the most stable and Stasis Engineering stepped up and picked up their scraps when they fell apart. We do a great deal of work with Stasis as well. Welcome to the land of Subarus, as I said I am pretty new here myself but these things definitely need some suspension help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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