Tires...again

[SUBE_MN]

I know much has been debated regarding tires on the GT, but I was hoping we could rehash it once again. I will be trading my 2000 BMW 323i Sedan in for a 2005 Legacy GT Limited Sedan (white/taupe) in August. My current car has Kumho HP4 716 tires. Tirerack classifies these as Grand Touring All-Season, and for my driving style, I have been happy with them. (I actually had the same tires put on my wife’s 98 Forester.) Realizing that there are always trade-offs, I need to decide if I want the stock tires on the GT replaced before I take delivery. Some information/requirements: 1) I am a 35 year old father of two, and this car will be my daily driver for a commute of 30 miles each way. 2) I do not want to swap summer and winter tires. 3) I live in the Minneapolis area, thus snow/wet traction are very important. 4) I am willing to compromise a little on cornering for improved ride and noise comfort. The reviews I have found for the stock RE92’s are not good. (It ranks 21st out of 22 in the High Performance All-Season survey results at Tirerack, and the snow traction rating is particularly poor.) I am not sure that the dealer will give me a credit if I swap the tires, but they can get good prices from a tire store that is close by. I talked to the manager at the tire store (who incidentally thinks the RE92’s are fine tires). He highly recommended the Continental ContiExtremeContact’s, which are classified as Ultra High Performance All-Season at Tirerack. This was a model I was already looking at. They do rank well at Tirerack, although some reviewers comment about flat spots after sitting, weak sidewalls, and less than stellar cornering. The poor weather handling appears very good. The manager thought they could be good for up to 60,000 miles. This particular tire store carries a fair amount of Continental, so I have also been considering the ContiPremierContact, which is classified as Grand Touring All-Season like I currently have on my BMW. This is a newer model, so there isn’t as much information, but the ratings appear good, and the snow and wet traction are rated highly. These tires have an 80,000 mile warranty. The stock tires on the GT are considered High Performance, so I don’t know if it would be an issue to step down a level to what Tirerack calls Grand Touring. What are the opinions out there? How bad are the RE92’s? Is it worth spending $500 on a set of Continental’s before I even drive the Potenzas? Does anyone have experience with the two models above? Thanks for the help. :)

[Dr. Zevil]

Just FYI, Sube555 and I both ordered Toyo Proxes 4. There isn't much info about them on the net but Toyo makes some sweet tires and I plan on using them all year round. We will probably review them as soon as we get our cars. I think they will be awesome. Also look at the Pzero Nero M/S by Pirelli. They are suppose to be great A/S tires as well. You don't want to step down at all! Even a semi-decent snow tire will be great in an AWD car. Go Ultra-High performance A/S for sure! You won't regret it!

[brady_bunch]

My vote is for the Pirelli PZero Nero M&S... as soon as I can decide on whether or not I'm getting different rims that are stock size or not. hehehe Of course, I am a confessed sport tire neophyte who has only done some comparisons on paper and on the web. :D

[SUBE555]

If you drop RE92 into a search you'll get few good results for it. I'm happy I will not be taking delivery on RE92's. I had Toyo Proxes 4's shipped to the dealership I'm purchasing from. They seem to have the best balance with bang for the buck. If you want one of the top of the line tires to match this car in A/S trims (yes, Kevin, I know all-seasons don't own all, but can be plenty good for many people), from the comparisons and information I've seen, the following look rather decent: Pirelli PZero Nero M&S Toyo Proxes 4 Falken Ziex 512 Currently 2 of our Subarus run Continental CEC's and they're decent, great in snow (even pretty good in RallyX :) ), they let you know short of breaking free. Unfortunately, the sidewalls are a bit soft and they do squeel a tad much. Okay for commuting, but a bit soft if you ask me. Have to get some good air pressure in to keep it halfways firm. I wouldn't even look at those other touring tires, generally a bit lacking, very much jack of all trades in many instances. I got $200 credit for my tires at my dealership, everone is different. My tires cost me about $402 shipped from Treadepot. So with mounting and all, it's like $250 for the new tires. Not too bad for a much upgraded experience if you ask me. I think the Toyos will perform very well by ratings and reviews. Certainly not enough of a difference with the PZero Nero to justify the $100 extra. Note, whatever tire you buy, make sure the performance rating is a W-speed rating or higher as comes on the car. BTW, places I'd look are: TireRack.com (been dealing with them for quite some time) TreaDepot.com (first experience good so far) OnlineTires.com 1010Tires.com Unfortunately TireRack doesn't offer Falken (for their Azenis in the summer for race) and Toyo for the T1-S, Proxes 4, and RA-1. It would truly be a one-stop shop if they did. :)

[IwannaSportSedan]

does anybody know any online site to compare tires other than Tire Rack? Tire rack doesn't have Falken, Toyo, Nitto, and others, to compare to Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli, Goodyear, etc. I keep comparing tires on tire rack, and Pirelli, and Bridgestone keep coming out on top, for summer high performance, all season high performance, and all-terrain (for my truck) Based on what I've seen, I'd probably go with Pirelli PZero Neros, or Bridgestone RE950 for M+S. The RE930 is my favorite summer tire so far. the Contis, or Yoko Avid H4S are honorable mention, for about $50 less. I'd love to compare stats with Toyos, Nittos, or Falkens, and maybe Coopers, though. BTW, I have heard of several new tires with carcasses such that they give great performance, and also road comfort and low noise, but the tradeoff is that they have temporary flat spotting when left undriven for a couple of days. a few minutes to get back up to temp, and the flat spots go away.

[SUBE555]

I got my Toyo to Pirelli comparo and more off 1010tires.com Not sure how they compare to Tire Rack, but it must be worth something decent. The Pirelli is rated high as on TireRack and the Toyo is right in the ballpark. So go figure. :P

[jk]

right now i'm planning on goodyear eagle f1 gs-d3 summers, still haven't figured out snows.

[yacoub]

Hey guys, Toyo makes excellent performance tires, but I have no input on their all-seasons yet. I can tell you that the Falcon Zeix 512s will last a very long time and while offering better than stock traction, will also have more road noise due to their relatively hard compound (that's why they last so well). I got caught on backroads in a fairly strong snowstorm with six-month old Zeix 512s and made it home. It was harrowing but I certainly fared better than others who slid on compacted snow or who couldn't get traction. FWIW, I was in a FWD Acura 3.2 TypeS. With AWD you'd do even better and I think a tire like that would be good for offering slightly improved summer performance traction while being able to get your butt home in a snowstorm.

[Salty]

I don't think the RE92 is a terrible tire. The car drives very nicely with them. But the bottom line is that the car is better than the tires,especially when it comes to emergency braking. I am going to put 4 snows come winter because there is no such thing as a great all season tire. I swapped in pure summer S03's which I believe are more tire than the suspension was designed forand maybe not the best choice for commuting. The Good Years were at the top of my list as well. I think the Toyos 4's might be a good choice. Try the dealer for a swap, because they will need replacement tires when Legacy owners damage theirs over the next year

[IwannaSportSedan]

I think it says something that a new Scion tC comes with the same exact RE92s that the legacy GT comes with. The Scion has less than 170 HP, and is front wheel drive. Granted it does weigh in at 3000-3100 lbs, it is a dressed up econobox, for those who want to look cool. and not a performance car in the least. Certainly no replacement for the Celica GT-S. I'd take a Mini in a heartbeat over a tC. The Legacy GT may not technically NEED new shoes, but I'll bet they would be a very welcomed addition. With the kind of traction and cornering the Legacy is capable of, even in stock trim, it all depends on the few square inches of rubber on the ground.

[Demi9OD]

I have a set of four BFG g-Force KDW 2's coming in Friday at Costco for $144 a piece, that INCLUDES installation and balancing. Really good price, I'll let you know about the performance this weekend after I sling her around a couple of corners.

[gtguy]

[quote name='Salty']I don't think the RE92 is a terrible tire. The car drives very nicely with them. But the bottom line is that the car is better than the tires,especially when it comes to emergency braking. I am going to put 4 snows come winter because there is no such thing as a great all season tire. I swapped in pure summer S03's which I believe are more tire than the suspension was designed forand maybe not the best choice for commuting. The Good Years were at the top of my list as well. I think the Toyos 4's might be a good choice. Try the dealer for a swap, because they will need replacement tires when Legacy owners damage theirs over the next year[/quote] Salty is right. The RE92 is a pretty good tire, in the Legacy's version. Run them at, say, 37/35 psi, and you'd be quite happy in the dry. I still haven't experienced their rain/snow traction, nor do I intend to. Kevin

[Opie]

The RE92 on the Legacy GT is a fine tire and there is no need to switch it until they have worn out. This from a 34 year old father of one who has a daily commute of 30 miles each way. The tires are a fine "all-around" tire, they do well in all conditions but aren't excellent at any of them. The Z-Rated RE92's are a different compound and sidewall construction than any of the other RE92's found on other models (including the Scion's), the only thing the tires share is the name and tread design. They are a fine in the wet, and are comfortable and quiet. This Legacy GT is my 5th Subaru, all of which came with the RE92's as original equipment. I have never found the need to go out and get new tires until the OEM RE92's wore out. I never replaced them with new RE92's because for the same price there are better alternatives. But I can't justify blowing $600 on new tires right of the bat when these work fine.

[WRXTom]

I'm going to agree and disagree with you. The GT RE92s fit the bill for smooth and comfortable commuting and predictable handling. But, they in no way approach the performance of a good, dedicated summer tire. Being 38, 3 1/2 year old boy and 2 year old girl, 15 mile commute each way I can understand your position. I'll admit that I push the car pretty hard, harder than most, when I have the chance and I need the grip of better rubber. Also, with two little kids at home one of my few opportunities for adult entertainment is performance driving...safely of course . Cost of new tires...$600, value of sanity...priceless. :) Tom

[outahere]

[quote name='Opie'].......This Legacy GT is my 5th Subaru, all of which came with the RE92's as original equipment....... [/quote] No doubt Subaru has a long term contract with Bridgestone, and is getting a hell of a deal on these tires. My guess is that Subaru loves these tires because of the price, and not the performance. If you were a Subaru suspension engineer, would you want the RE92, or a more modern all season design like the RE950? We know what the bean counters wanted, and they had the final say.

[SUBE555]

Here are the tires on my car, he Toyo Proxes 4's. [img]http://homepage.mac.com/futureofx/.Pictures/NEWGT/PREDEL/GTPD12.jpg[/img]

[SC GT]

[quote name='Demi9OD']I have a set of four BFG g-Force KDW 2's coming in Friday at Costco for $144 a piece, that INCLUDES installation and balancing. Really good price, I'll let you know about the performance this weekend after I sling her around a couple of corners.[/quote] I'm very interested in reading your review of these tires. What size are you getting?

[racerdave]

Way to go Seth! Looks great! (I'll have to go looking for other photos). Demi... I'll also be VERY interested to hear your review on the KDW2's (or are they they KDW-Sport?)

[Opie]

[quote name='outahere']No doubt Subaru has a long term contract with Bridgestone, and is getting a hell of a deal on these tires. My guess is that Subaru loves these tires because of the price, and not the performance. If you were a Subaru suspension engineer, would you want the RE92, or a more modern all season design like the RE950? We know what the bean counters wanted, and they had the final say.[/quote] Having spoken with some of the engineers when the WRX came out on why the WRX was equiped with the same RE92's as the rest of the Subaru lineup I was basically told that it was the only Bridgestone tire (whom they do have an agreement with) that provided acceptable levels of grip, ride comfort and wear for all types of conditions (dry, mud, snow) at a reasonable price point. I assume the same is true for the RE92's on the GT...they aren't "great" at any of the conditions, but they are good at all of them.

[Demi9OD]

Here is a quick review of my new tires. This is the first performance car I've owned, and likewise the first set of performance tires, so don't take everything I say as gospel :P. Immediately noticeable is an increased perceivable sharpness in steering. Everything you do in the car you can feel a bit better, and overall handling is quicker and tighter. There is also a slight increase in road noise, but it is more perceptible at low speeds than high. I can sort of feel the road through my feet more, which I enjoy, but others may feel it takes away from the overall luxuriousness of the ride. High speed cornering is greatly improved, these things friggen stick like glue. I pulled the car around a tight onramp going just about as fast as the tires could handle, and was easily outpacing the highway traffic as I came off at about 85mph. I could only manage about 60 on the re92s before they got skittish. The other thing I really like is the way they don't suddenly break traction like the re92s seem to. They give it up as you increase cornering speeds beyond their limits, but it is very linear and predictable. The re92's are simply under matched to the cars power, without a doubt, and I think any performance-oriented driver should invest in new tires before modding any other part of the car. The only issue I have now is the stock suspension isn't tight enough for good rubber; body roll is definitely perceptible once you have the ability to really throw the GT around. Not sure I'm ready to trade off the smooth ride for a bumpier one yet though, guess I'll wait to see how my driving style and demands change as I get used to my new baby. oh btw I got stock size, 215/45/17, costco refuses to put anything else on and quite frankly that was fine with me. Here is a link to the tires if anyone else is interested. [url]http://www.costco.com/Tires/Product.aspx?IV=false&YW=215%2f&MA=45&MD=17&SP=All&MN=&cat=3960&MNo=0&Prodid=10037692&Aspect=45&Diameter=17&Speed=Y&Width=215[/url]

[nicd]

This is the Falken Azenis on GC-06D 17*7.5 rims.

I had these on my WRX so I know them pretty well, there is some rolling noise no where close to being as quite ae the RE92s. Gobs and gobs of grip. Obviously with thses on the car really carves the road up and goes where you point. Ride is not really harder than stock just a wee bit just lots of car feed back. I have not getten them to break the road grip yet! The tire is a decent performer in the wet but you do have to take care of standing water. Compound is soft but this is the second summer I use them and so far the wear is accceptable for this type of tyre, when I do long distances I put my RE92s back on the car woth the original rims.

I reccomend that with these tires you take the oppurtunity to try them at a Solo school or track, as they can cary a high amount of speed and g's(well it aint a slick but still) before they let go however at that time you will have much less margin for error.