How Quickly We Forget

[MtnSub]

I am 10k miles and nine months into my LegGT/Ltd wagon with MT, Short Throw and 18 inch high perf tires. I am a past BMW3 owner and was just beginning to wonder if a test drive in a BMW3, AWD/MT wagon would make me re-think my choice for Subaru.

 

Well, my oldest son just left his 2002 BMW325, AWD/MT wagon with me for a few days and I took it for a spin on LA freeways and a steep mountain road to Mt. Wilson, 5,100 ft elevation. (Joy ride cost, dad pays for 40k service and full detail while son is on vacation)

 

First thing I noticed when getting in the BMW3 is how heavy the door was and how the lighter Subaru door sounds every bit as vault like when I closed it. You just gota luv the frameless window doors. Next, I noticed how much firmer yet narrower my LegGT/Ltd seats were than the standard leather BMW seats, a very good thing IMO. Yes, the interior materials are more upscale in the BMW, but not better in design or layout. The LegGT Momo steering wheel and seats are just better for my taste.. The BMW has many more creature/techno features and a much better upgraded sound system, at minimal cost. BUT once the engine is fired, the LegGT reminded me why a loyal BMW owner bought a LegGT/MT wagon.

 

The BMW inline six, even as a 325 is a great engine, but lacks the force and sheer exileration of the LegGTs 250 ft. lbs and turbo rush. The BMW clutch felt soft or light, yes more forgiving, but the LegGT clutch was more machine like and the firmness more sporting. My short shit option LegGT was more notchy and definitely shorter throws than the BMW, a good thing IMO. I cannot deny the balance and razor sharp cornering of the BMW coming down the narrow, steep, two lane mountain road, but the 225/40/18 high perf tires on the LegGT really bridged the gap and the cars are very close. The LegGT definitely had the advantage going up the mountain, with pull pull pull. I always thought the BMW had a “machine” feel to it, but the LegGT has an even edgier, some would say less refined, feel than the BMW. I really like the feel of the LegGT in terms of road feel, controls, pedal firmness, seats, etc. The LegGT really makes you feel part of a purposeful machine. BMW does have an almost magic suspension. It feels softer or more comfortable at low speeds, but when pushed, it corners with less body roll and floats less at high speed over humps. I like the firm feel of the LegGT at daily driving speeds, but I wish it had a tad bit less body roll in corners and less float at very high speeds over humps. Regarding looks, I like the LegGT more every day. I really like so many things about the LegGT “wagon” style. Yes, I wish it had less overhang in front and back. Yes, if you need "prestiege brand" approval, BMW has it. When I need to look like a fat old rich guy, we take my wife's new Range Rover, but if I want to have fun, I always opt for my LegGT wagon.

 

Would I leave Subaru after one good experience for a new 2008 BMW? If Subaru does not offer the wagon with MT, upgrade the car and/or offer a LegGT/STi wagon, and offer a better sound system, I will seriously consider a BMW3/MT/AWD wagon for my next car. HOWEVER, today, BMW only offers the 325 for 3 series wagons and I love the pull and machine like feel of my LegGT/Ltd, MT wagon. Will Subaru offer the LegGT wagon with MT again? Will BMW offer the 330 engine in a AWD wagon in 2008? Driving my son’s 2002 BMW325ixT/MT just reminded me how quickly I had forgotten how special the LegGT/Ltd, MT, sport wagon really is.

[red beast]

get a new rear swaybar for the subie.

[dark_rex]

brand new, the BMW is a great car, but you pay a LOT more for not a lot more.

 

$0.02

 

dR

[MtnSub]

In case it got lost in my long winded post, I am more impressed than ever with my LegGT/MT wagon after driving my son's BMW325ixT, MT wagon. The Subaru guys deserve more credit and sales for a great sport wagon. The LegGT is far better than the Audi A4 and as good as the BMW 3.

[dark_rex]

I read it. just throwing 2 pennies into the pot.

 

the 330 was a lot more powerful than i expected. conversely, I was only marginally impressed with the M3. great interior, but power wise, i felt something was left on the table compared to my stage 2WRX.

 

LGT > * ?

[IwannaSportSedan]

I think it is hilarious that Subaru is making a viable alternative to a BMW, especially in the wagon segment.

 

The hilarious part about that is, that Subaru is pulling their manual transmission option, just as BMW is really starting to tout it's touring wagons. The 5-series AWD touring wagon, specifically.

 

Here's a real kicker, in EVO or CAR magazine (both British) they have a shot of a grey wagon at a turn in the nurburgring track, that get this... is an M5!!!!

 

Yes, you heard me right. 500+hp V10, 7-speed SMG, body kit, the whole works, on a RWD touring wagon. If the M5 and M6 are any indication, they may be putting the 6MT in it, as well, for the American market, if it comes to market, and to the US market specifically.

 

Just as subaru yanks it's MT in the wagon. Very Intereschtingk, yet Very SCHTUPITT!

(if you've ever seen Laugh-In, you'll get that reference...)

[dark_rex]

for the American market, if it comes to market, and to the US market specifically.

 

with the way BMW USA has stopped taking M5 and M6 orders, I doubt we'll ever see that beast of a wagon over here. We're like the stepchildren of the world's automotive enthusiast family.

 

dR

[turboWagon]

Great review. I came from a 97 M3 and had other BMW before it. The M3 is more stable on high speed and the acceleration from 80-100 is quicker IMO. The brake is much better with BMW stock wise and the enging sound is just lovely but everything else my LGT wagon can do it equally or better. Before I got my LGT, I thought my only route is to get another 4 door M3 if they ever come out but now it will be a awhile I am going back to BMW unless they have something impressive and get rid of the I-drive system.

 

The suspension setting is always hard to fine a perfect balance. The LGT’s suspension is perfect for my daily driving purpose. It’s soft enough without worrying too much of the bumps/pot holes and firm enough to be able to take fast corning. The best part is the 4WD just pulls you out of exit like mad.

 

The 325’s engine is pretty weak IMO, I had a chance to keep a 325 wagon overnight and I got bored after 10 mines of driving it. It feels like it run out of power after 3rd gear.

 

And yes the wagon MT won’t sell in US, the typical comments I got from the friends are – I just never thought of you as a wagonman. What the heck is wagonman suppose to mean?

 

They will never get it but it’s fine with me, I hope the highway patrol will never know the secret of the LGT wagon also.. ;-)

[Boostjunkie]

with the way BMW USA has stopped taking M5 and M6 orders, I doubt we'll ever see that beast of a wagon over here. We're like the stepchildren of the world's automotive enthusiast family.

 

dR

 

Who knows, Mercedes just released an E55 AMG wagon. Only going to bring about 200 of them in to the US, but since they are doing it, it is certainly within the realm of reason to see BMW matching them with an M5 wagon.

[SoldonSubie]

In case it got lost in my long winded post, I am more impressed than ever with my LegGT/MT wagon after driving my son's BMW325ixT, MT wagon. The Subaru guys deserve more credit and sales for a great sport wagon. The LegGT is far better than the Audi A4 and as good as the BMW 3.

 

When I bought my OBXT (5MT Subaru!) last June (04) I considered all the above and then some. It came down to a 325xi sedan (the vagon got too pricey) and the LGT/OBXT.

 

Funny thing is the BMW dealer couldn't locate an MT for me that didn't have vinyl seats. And then he only had 2! Call it what you want and I don't care how it translates from German, leatherette is vinyl.

 

Heck, I would have LOVED to have seen the standard CLOTH seats that BMW offers in Europe, a 5MT and a split gfold down rear seat. That's it! BMW calls itself a "driver's car" but it seems their inventory is geared t suburban housewives getting groceries.

 

Tell me, what does an automatic transmission (in a market where almost half of the Subarus are MT's), leather, sun roofs, television (navi), and power seats have to do with being an ultimate driving machine?

 

I am glad that I got my XT. My first 'kill' with the XT was a 330xi that kept trying to pass me (and everyone else) on the right. He simply couldn't keep up and I wasn't even downshifting!

[mlrtime]

I test drove a 2004 325ixt wagon with about 10k miles. The sticker was 29,999 with service/warranty for 7/100k.

 

The bmw wagon felt very stable and proper just like a German car feels. However after driving the LGT it just felt boring. Sure it did everything right but that's about it.

 

The only thing that I really wanted was the steering radio controls, otherwise the lgt wagon at $2.5k less made it an easy choice.

 

I also drove a 2002 E320 4MATIC wagon, which was very nice and solid.

The MB eats up the road and ignores any pot holes I drove over. The car had some good acceleration and I would have really liked the MB wagon. However at 45k miles and a $30k+ sticker, I was fearing it would be a money pit.

 

 

-mlr

[MtnSub]

SoldonSubie, most BMWs and LegGTs sold are grocery haulers. Hope we can still order MT for a few more years.

 

I had to special order my last two BMW3/MT/AWD wagons (my last BMW and a 2002 for my oldest son.) I also had to special order my Silver, LegGT/Ltd with MT and short shifter. BMW promotes the "Ult Driving Machine" and Subaru had an entire advert campaign around being faster than a BMW/Porsche etc (only if you drive a MT) none of these companies stock or sell many MTs. So many "sport sedan" drivers really do not want to live with MT and believe that Triptronic is just as good as real MT. I had a Triptronic car for three years and I could not wait to get back into a real sling-shot toy.

[SoldonSubie]

SoldonSubie, most BMWs and LegGTs sold are grocery haulers. Hope we can still order MT for a few more years.

 

I had to special order my last two BMW3/MT/AWD wagons (my last BMW and a 2002 for my oldest son.) I also had to special order my Silver, LegGT/Ltd with MT and short shifter. BMW promotes the "Ult Driving Machine" and Subaru had an entire advert campaign around being faster than a BMW/Porsche etc (only if you drive a MT) none of these companies stock or sell many MTs. So many "sport sedan" drivers really do not want to live with MT and believe that Triptronic is just as good as real MT. I had a Triptronic car for three years and I could not wait to get back into a real sling-shot toy.

 

 

Agreed. At least my Subaru dealer could actually find an MT for me. Heck, he had one coming in and I grabbed it! If the LGT/OBXT wasn't an option I would have ordered a 325x and waited the two months. When we ordered our 01 v70 w 5MT (a true grocery getter) we had to wait 2 months. Before we ordered that one the dealer searched all US allocated inventory and found 4 cars!

[Henkle]

I'm from a '97 MB E420 sedan. Bought new; had 275 hp, tons of torque, right-now acceleration, stable & comfy high speed runs... Traded the E420 in (still in perfect condition) with my '05 GT MT. The dealer (& my wife) couldn't figure out why,... but honestly, besides the amazingly easy high speed cruises, I haven't missed the E420 much! Perhaps it's because I'm a shift-it-yourself lover, which the MB didn't offer...

 

Well, it's mostly the repair bills which I grew tired of paying... Oh no, MB do make nice reliable cars, just that their parts and labor cost much higher. There's something about the Legacy GT that I just love, perhaps it's the AWD, the quick turbo accelerations, the firm chassis, the pothole taking suspension, the ease of modding... (comparing to a MB) This car has all the right packages that I wanted in a daily commuter. The E420 has better right-now torque, flatter cornering, more stable high speed cruises... but I'm still searching for reasons why I like to drive the Legacy more than the E420... and I'm having fun doing so...

 

Oh, if you're into BMWs, then you'd better back yourself up with a pile of money after the warranty period runs out! Their electronic systems on the newer vehicles is definitely going to cause some serious damage to your bank account! (that's a long technical story) I love how the German cars handles;) , but since I don't have money to burn, so I'll stay away from those "ultimate driving machine", unless the company gives me a free vehicle to drive with... but that's another story...