Apex-XT Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Just did my timing belt this weekend. R&R all the belts, upper & lower radiator hoses, oil pump & seal, water pump and tstat. But, I have a question... After getting the belt on, before pulling the grenade pin, I cycled the engine through by hand with a socket and long bar on the crank bolt. I went through quite a few times, at intervals stopping and checking the alignment marks on all the cams and crank. I noticed that the lines that came on the belt to help you get everything aligned didn't 'line up' with the cam/crank marks after the first pass through. But, I kept turning it through and the cam/crank marks continued to all line up as the engine returned to TDC #1 cyl and the belt lines never aligned on the cam/crank marks again. I'm probably not getting this, but shouldn't the belt marks align up with the cam/crank marks if everything is symmetrical? Or is it not symmetrical? Thinking that if the cam/crank marks align, I should go by them instead of worry about the belt lines. I pulled the pin, buttoned it all up, started it and it ran nicely. Went for a test drive and seemed to have good power and pickup. The old belt had been in for 100k, so probably began to stretch a bit throwing the timing out of optimal. After thinking through what might be the problem last night, I pulled the covers off and exposed the timing belt again this evening to double check everything. Again, I had run the motor today to bring it in the garage to work on it, all seemed to run fine. Again, Rotated the engine by hand until the crank and all 4 cams lined up perfectly and this time, none of the belt marks were even close. Is this what I should expect? Once the belt is in and motor run, the belt lines don't synch up with the crank/cam marks? Am I making extra work for myself? Not being ARetentive, but I want to make sure that I'm not off by 1 tooth on the belt or the belt 'walking' doesn't cause future problems. This is the first Subaru belt I've done - to the shop at the first 100k change. Is it too much to ask for symmetry? A couple of things I've read in this forum that helped immensely... A) the Vise Grip method of holding the Driver's side cams works wonderfully B) using the starter to break the crank bolt loose is a dream... BMW reverse thread @ 400 lb is a biatch 300k miles, BNR 16g, CryoTune, 'Bullet-Proofed' IC, Motor rebuild @ 250k b/c of a cracked exhaust valve. Original 5 EAT. Oil changed religiously @ 3,000 mi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialB Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I had the same thing happen to me. Apparantly you have to fully rotate the marks five times over and it will align again. I did that and then had to check it again after running it for two hundred miles and then the marks had completely disappeared! :screwy: Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible001 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 X2^ as long as the timing marks line up your good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 THE MARKS ON THE TIMING BELT MEAN NOTHING, THE BELT DOES NOT CARE HOW IT GOES ON. The important thing is the marks on the gears have to line up every time. The belt has a odd number of teeth so it moves around and distrubutes the wear. You poor noob's 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex-XT Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 THE MARKS ON THE TIMING BELT MEAN NOTHING, THE BELT DOES NOT CARE HOW IT GOES ON. Exactly what I thought... and why I buttoned it up and kept going. The belt has a odd number of teeth so it moves around and distributes the wear. This... this is the answer to my question - i.e. NO SYMMETRY. But I understand now. You poor noob's Yes I am. And that's why I visit forums and ask questions. In my day job, I manage a biotech company. For fun, I tinker with cars. Thank you for your reply. 300k miles, BNR 16g, CryoTune, 'Bullet-Proofed' IC, Motor rebuild @ 250k b/c of a cracked exhaust valve. Original 5 EAT. Oil changed religiously @ 3,000 mi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yes I am. And that's why I visit forums and ask questions. In my day job, I manage a biotech company. For fun, I tinker with cars. Don't listen to gumpy old Max, he gets tired of repeating himself. We've all been called NooBs at least a dozon times at one point. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Exactly what I thought... and why I buttoned it up and kept going. This... this is the answer to my question - i.e. NO SYMMETRY. But I understand now. Yes I am. And that's why I visit forums and ask questions. In my day job, I manage a biotech company. For fun, I tinker with cars. Thank you for your reply. Oh, your a manager....now I understand. LOL joking. We're here to help 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roche Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've got a quick question, when doing mine could I just get http://www.customcarscentral.com/gattckwp328-subaru-legacy-2-5-gt-05-up-.html?gclid=CMuB1tn4hrMCFc2d4AodOm8AMA#.UH4Q48VH5sh and call it good? Coolant flush as well of course. Or should I buy everything separately with a Gates racing belt instead of the normal belt? http://ajwperformanceproducts.com/store/#ecwid:mode=product&product=4770998 If anyone knows of a cheaper source, I'd like to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Get the normal belt unless you PM a vendor and get a price that is only $5 difference for the "race" belt like I did. Gates kit is the way to go. Be sure to get some gasket sealant at your local auto parts store as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex-XT Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 And, depending on your mileage, you may want to change out the water pump and/or oil pump. I did both b/c I was 204k and I skipped the wp at the 100k timing belt change. If you do the oil pump, look into anaerobic gasket sealant instead of standard RTV. The silicone sealant can squish out into the oil pump area and may break off over time. If a lump of RTV gets stuck in a bearing or oil channel, you're looking at trouble. The anaerobic sealant remains a gel, which dissolves in the oil, if it squishes out. Only the material between the metal of the pump and block will harden and seal. Anaerobic - no air in the space between metals. I used the Gates kit... everything fit perfectly and seemed high quality. Time will tell. 300k miles, BNR 16g, CryoTune, 'Bullet-Proofed' IC, Motor rebuild @ 250k b/c of a cracked exhaust valve. Original 5 EAT. Oil changed religiously @ 3,000 mi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roche Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I was going to do the water pump as well. I'll get the kit with the water pump and the standard belt and just replace again in 100k. Oil pump will have to wait a while longer though, and I'll keep the sealant in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 We use the gates kits on all our timing belt installs and they've been spot on for us. We use the kit which includes the water pump as well. Once you are in there, no reason not to change it out. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sackajacka Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Jeez - I just asked the dealer for price on a 2005 OBXT timing belt (was there grabbing a couple of oil filters) -- $1800! Crazy talk. We use the gates kits on all our timing belt installs and they've been spot on for us. We use the kit which includes the water pump as well. Once you are in there, no reason not to change it out. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 $1800, that is high. The dealer did mine and charged $1084 out the door. That's excluding the idler pulleys though. I stupidly assumed they would change them, but they didn't. Oh well, it would've cost me a lot more if they did, after seeing how much oem idler pulleys go for. Total Labor $494 Total parts $519 t-belt - $98 water pump - $165, water pump gasket $6 Thermostat w/gasket - $40 Coolant - $33 Tensioner $176 I know I overpaid, but I'm ok with paying a little more to have the dealer do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Don't go to the dealer for this job, any repair shop can do the job for less then that. I could be wrong, but I think the water pump comes with the gasket as well as the t'stat. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sackajacka Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Don't go to the dealer for this job, any repair shop can do the job for less then that. I could be wrong, but I think the water pump comes with the gasket as well as the t'stat. I won't, I was just interested in their quote. I will take this one to http://www.andrewtechautomotive.com/ - these guys have always treated me right and are Subie specialists. I don't remember their exact quote but it was several hundred less. And I know that I can trust them, too. Highly recommended for anyone in the DC/MD/NOVA area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shello007 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I must really be a cheap bastard. When the dealership quoted me $800+ , I thought they were snorting coke. I purchased complete Gates kit ($280). Had my mechanic do install ($300. Labour). My receipt shows how much each bolt was torqued to. Pulleys, water-pump everything replaced. We need to stop allowing Stealerships to rape us. Sorry for rant.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex--TheGreek Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Does anyone know if the intervals for doing the timing belt would be the same on a EJ20(jdm) engine as the udsm? At 55k miles would i need to change the water pump, tensioner etc ? Also would the Gates kit, which so many people use in the US, work for my car? Many many thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 $1800, that is high. The dealer did mine and charged $1084 out the door. That's excluding the idler pulleys though. I stupidly assumed they would change them, but they didn't. Oh well, it would've cost me a lot more if they did, after seeing how much oem idler pulleys go for. Total Labor $494 Total parts $519 t-belt - $98 water pump - $165, water pump gasket $6 Thermostat w/gasket - $40 Coolant - $33 Tensioner $176 I know I overpaid, but I'm ok with paying a little more to have the dealer do the job. Would have been cheaper to take a day and visit us! Haaa. Maybe next time. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Does anyone know if the intervals for doing the timing belt would be the same on a EJ20(jdm) engine as the udsm? At 55k miles would i need to change the water pump, tensioner etc ? Also would the Gates kit, which so many people use in the US, work for my car? Many many thanks guys! I would think outside the US you would be on a 60k interval, the USDM cars are required to have the 105k to pass California emissions. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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