rougeben83 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Good writeup, Did this with legacy upper links to go on my outback that I installed legacy wagon struts/springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Mac Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Are you people adjusting these with the wheels on? Seems almost impossible to get vice grips/ adjustable pliers up in there to adjust and even with the bolts loosened seems too tight to twist with just allen keys/a punch. Tyre shop guy was getting pretty pissed off trying to work out a way to sus it out with the wheels on and taking them off for each little tweak would take forever. 2000 Legacy B4 RSK - SOLD 2006 Legacy BP5 GT Spec B wagon - Garage Thread 2011 VW T5 van 2.0L of turbo diesel awesomeness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated bucko3the7man Posted June 29, 2015 I Donated Share Posted June 29, 2015 Are you people adjusting these with the wheels on? Seems almost impossible to get vice grips/ adjustable pliers up in there to adjust and even with the bolts loosened seems too tight to twist with just allen keys/a punch. Tyre shop guy was getting pretty pissed off trying to work out a way to sus it out with the wheels on and taking them off for each little tweak would take forever. My alignment guy uses channellock pliers with the wheels on, no problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellsMcKenzie Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Everyone else had issues with where the control arm connects to the subframe right? I broke my breaker bar when I tried to push it with my foot. There is just no room to move this thing. Thinking I might be able to spin it off with an impact chisel. But I need to order new bolts first, because these old ones on the car are mangled. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated bucko3the7man Posted June 9, 2016 I Donated Share Posted June 9, 2016 Everyone else had issues with where the control arm connects to the subframe right? I broke my breaker bar when I tried to push it with my foot. There is just no room to move this thing. Thinking I might be able to spin it off with an impact chisel. But I need to order new bolts first, because these old ones on the car are mangled. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk I ended up having to cut one of my bolts with a sawzall. like I said earlier, order the whiteline replacement bushings while you're at it before you go too crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellsMcKenzie Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I ended up having to cut one of my bolts with a sawzall. like I said earlier, order the whiteline replacement bushings while you're at it before you go too crazy. After looking at it again in a picture, I'm going to use an angle grinder to get it out. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 After looking at it again in a picture, I'm going to use an angle grinder to get it out. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk I put this kit in in 2012. Getting the bushing out sucks, the new one can be installed with a decent vice. You can get a Harbor Freight floor press for $159 (I paid $150) after coupon. It blows stock bushings out like nothing and helps install stock bushings. The kit works but my legacy had negative camber at stock ride height and with this kit on max camber, it's still just barely in spec. really to put it in the middle of the range would require adjustable control arms or a kit that uses some other component. The biggest problem I have with this kit is the squeaking. I assembled it lubing everything with stock lube. Six months later the bushings were creaking and squeaking. So I took everything apart (not hard you never need a press again to get anything out or in, just the vice). And the next time I used Super Lube. Six months later squeak, squeak, squeak. So I ignored it for three more months and finally couldn't take it anymore so I took it apart again and drowned every metal to bushing surface with anti-seize compound, it is everywhere, the inside the outside, everywhere. I just did this so I have no idea how long it will last but the next time I'm replacing the control arms with adjustable ones. The problem is only Megan racing seems to make a set and they $170 even on ebay. If it had it to do over, I would leave the control arms alone and get another type of replacement component. Some of the other ways to change camber allow up to three degrees and are cheaper than adjustable upper control arms. But now my control arms are changed, I'm stuck. Just be aware this only allows 1.00 degree (some say 1.25) which isn't much and the bushings are super prone to squeaking if they dry out. Which in my case they have and probably will again. But I'm in the rust belt with lots of snow and salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I did one with that but it requires lots of cheater bar and a good vise to hold it in place Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4 Beta And it's not worth it. I have an old chinese vice that weighs 50 pounds with six inch jaws. And I loosened it some doing this. Once I bought a HF 20 ton floor press for $150 ($159 currently with coupon) end of problem. And it should last me years since I rarely press things. And works on bearings and bushings and whatever I need to press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 BTW, my inner bolts were also initially very difficult (now easy since they come off every few months). I finally used the two wrench trick with a pipe and it worked. It actually ripped the pipe a little but nothing broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 the "squeaking" is part of the "racecar" experience. If doing the rear suspension bits, it's best to replace them all at the same time with same durameter values. It will make the ride & NVH more harsh, however, handling will be better. it's the tradeoff. Lubing the bushings is part of the experience. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 But I have a 2000 legacy wagon, no turbo, no race car. I just put these on because Subaru set my car up from the factory with negative camber and I was chewing up the edge of tires prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 But I have a 2000 legacy wagon, no turbo, no race car. I just put these on because Subaru set my car up from the factory with negative camber and I was chewing up the edge of tires prematurely. negative camber from factory? I owned one for several years never had that problem. Perhaps your suspension is worn out or you're carrying too much weight in the rear? Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 well, got the whiteline ball joints in pretty easy (after i took the whole control arm off) but that inside bolt wouldn't budge on the rear control arm. Outside camber bolt came off fine but inside bolt was fused. Didn't have enough room for breaker bar with the car on stands... Im going to try on a lift and if not ill just cut them off and replace... what a B****!! negative camber from factory? I owned one for several years never had that problem. Perhaps your suspension is worn out or you're carrying too much weight in the rear? Definitely not, using OEM springs from ebay southern CA car with 104,000 miles. Shocks had a lot less than that. It's just always been that way, even with the whiteline bushings on max, it's just barely in the recommended range at the alignment shop. 2-3 tenths of a degree less and it'd be outside the range in the negative again. Really, I need a system to put 1.5 degrees of adjustment into it. It's both sides too, using Legacy wagon springs too. The sedan, wagon and outback all have different rear springs and mine is a wagon, it's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Definitely don't put antiseize between the metal of the control arm and the outside of the bushings. Putting it inside the bushings and the pin with the hole in it works somewhat, putting it on the outside makes it squeak continuously on every street irregularity like an old spring in a wagon. I can't live with it. I've had it apart twice just this week. My choices are give up entirely and put adjustable rear upper control arms on. Disadvantage only megan racing makes this and a pair is $170. Or I can get two factory rubber bushings, press them in to restore my factory upper control arms and buy another method to adjust rear camber. Some of the other methods allow up to 3 degrees and they are cheaper. I have a floor press and the bushings are only about $12-$15 each. SPC makes a bar to adjust SPC Performance 67665 It's $92 on ebay so it would be cheaper to go that route and I could get the rear camber in the middle of the range instead of just barely in range. Suggestions, this is the worst it has ever been, anti-seize on the outside of the bushings is just awful. If you get out of the car even they scream at you from that tiny movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 It's $15 each for the new factory outer bushings and $92 something unless he takes less (make offer) probably would take $90 for the lower control arm replacement. So I'd be out $120 vs. $170 and I'm happier with SPC than megan racing. Any advantages of just going with megan racing adjustable rear upper control arms vs. SPC rear lower and restoring factory upper control arms to stock? Other than the time to remove the Whiteline kit and press the new factory bushings back in? And the time to install the lower. If I get the adjustable upper control arm then I only have to remove the old control arms. But I get four brand new bushings vs. two if I do it that way too because then the new lower comes with brand new SPC bushings. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Nevermind, it's $92 per side. I guess it's megan racing for me. Oh well, at least no more squeaking. I don't race the car at all but our roads are so bad, the megan racing arms could break I guess. I ordered the Megan racing adjustable control arms for $170 a pair and free shipping off ebay. I'll report back once I get them on and get the car aligned. My front struts have almost 140,000 miles and a lot of rust and I'm probably going to buy used bilsteins JDM for a good price from a seller on ebay. Since I need an alignment anyway for the megan racing struts, this might be a good time to get them. My experience is 150,000 is about it for stock struts. I have been buying them off ebay as a whole unit and running them until they feel bad then getting more with 100K or less. They run about $75 a unit shipped and it gives me fresh springs too. Car has over 300K so the original springs would be completely shot by now anyway. But the bilsteins are $275 shipped as the front pair and the whole units, only 38,000 miles. I'd get all four but my back ones are still in good shape. Got those from a Southern CA car, springs had 104K and the shocks had already been replaced KYB G2 units. So they still feel great. $500 for all four bilstein units really isn't a bad deal at all but I don't need the rears. Anyone run JDM bilstein front units on a legacy, do they ride real stiff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Mac Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 They're not all that stiff. Had them with pink springs on my old one. Pretty perfect ballance between wallowing everywhere and rock hard. Whats the actual camber specs you're seeing? Should get camber wear if lowered but not at stock height. Mine just needed some toe adjustment with the pink springs which got rid of all camber wear. 2000 Legacy B4 RSK - SOLD 2006 Legacy BP5 GT Spec B wagon - Garage Thread 2011 VW T5 van 2.0L of turbo diesel awesomeness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I don't have the sheet in front of me, but even with the whiteline bushings on max, it's just 2 tenths in the recommended range on the alignment specs and on the other side maybe 3 tenths. But it's still not very close to neutral, it's good enough but it would need a degree and a half to be neutral. I'm hoping the megan arms allow adjustment closer to the middle of the range. Since it's an old non turbo wagon vs. a race car, I'll trade negative camber handling for increased tire life any day. Especially here, tires don't hold up at all on our terrible roads. The last set of 90,000 mile tires I had lasted 30,000 miles and I've never got more than 40,000 out of any set of tires. And that's with trying to align it as much as I can afford, be aware here that all cars probably need an alignment every couple months. Our roads are full of potholes that only finally get filled in by late October before the whole process starts over. And the road surface is very hard, it wears rubber down at a ferocious rate so even if you can keep it in alignment, your tires just dissolve. I had some of those Viva 3s on my accord and in a year and a half, not even that many miles, they were 3/4 of the way worn out. And evenly too. They are 60,000 miles radials which means 25,000 here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just paid a place in Canada Japanese used auto parts $275 for two front Bilsteins with 38,000 shipped off a Japanese legacy. Supposedly they get the entire cars from Japan and part them out. It's interesting ALL the suppliers I saw of JDM subaru parts on ebay are in Canada. I'm guessing their import laws are different than ours. Anyway, I'll take it, one rear bilstein shock new for the Rear (which are cheaper) is well over $100 at tirerack, no mount, no spring. About $175 just for the rear shock for one side. Well, back to putting radiator screw type hose clamps on my buzzing exhaust shields. It's not an old Subaru if the exhaust shields don't buzz. So when my upper rear adjustable control arms come and my new front struts come, I'll change them and get an alignment all at once. I figured out my front struts had about 140,000 on them and they still felt OK but they would have not have for much longer. Since i drive about 20,000 miles a year, it was worth it to go a little early (but not much early) since I need an alignment anyway after the upper control arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If you have an old accord too, I notice the parts are almost free. Amazon has complete Moog front shock/spring/mount unit for 94-97 accord for $32 shipped. They had some for $23 and I bought two. They are $100 everywhere else. The timing belt kit for that accord is $85, the kit for the Subaru is $159 (Gates). Still a good deal, but wow. They had a kit for accord, upper control arms with pre-mounted ball joints, two lower ball joints, inner and outer tie rod ends and sway bar bushing end links for $95 total. I'm like WTF. I wish stuff was that cheap for my Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Now that I made this commitment, the bushings are squeaking less. Of course. Still a little though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I can't believe it, my struts came but the rear control arms were "delayed by a train derailment." What are the chances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 OK control arms came. Not very comforting that all Megan Racing stuff says off road only. I guess that's to cover them if one fails on the interstate. It looks really good except for the adjustment system who knows how strong that threaded bolt is? Anyway a couple pictures, I assume the two nuts lock together once the correct adjustment is reached? Do they lock on the outside or the inside? http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii598/clearanceman1/DSCN1947_zpsvwo2pfub.jpg http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii598/clearanceman1/DSCN1946_zpsq6ksj3kv.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Here it is adjusted. Then I just put the bolt through. I might actually have a hair of positive camber at this point, I'll know after I take it for alignment tomorrow. There is a lot more adjustment room. Concerns are bottoming out and strength. Since I appear to be the first person in the entire world who has even taken a picture of one on the back of their subaru, I guess I'll see. If it doesn't work or breaks, I'll have to get new bushings for the stock ones and buy SPC's lower adjustable control arm and sell these on ebay I guess. Because I already scratched them which isn't hard at all, teh finish kind of sucks. http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii598/clearanceman1/DSCN1950_zpswqtbppfj.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearanceman Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Went for alignment, one ball joint going bad. I'll do them both this weekend then back for an alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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