kosnic Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 So I bought a legacy for a couple hundred bucks with a bad engine, minimal history or info with it. Looks like it had a timing issue, and may have skipped teeth. I replaced the timing belt and had the engine roating freely, tried to start it and found I had the timing 180 degrees off (whoops) so it backfired. I started to take out the plug on cylinder one and found this.. what the hell happened here? I got #2 and #3 out too, didn't get #4 out and the others were fine. I've never seen anything like this. I doubt its from the back fire. The previous owner said the car started running rough and then it died. They compared it to having bad gas. They said the check engine light was on. UPDATE: New pictures.. I pulled the head off. Looks like the valve broke and caused all this. I don't think it jumped timing or anything because the valve stem wasn't bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Holy crap! What year is your legacy? Idk what happened, but that looks crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosnic Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 This is a 97 with a 2.5 DOHC. I've been in the auto industry for a long time and I've never seen something like this. I haven't gotten a look at the piston because the engine is still in the car. I don't know if I can come up with something using a mirror.. but I'm curious if there is any other damage.. I'm expecting to have to do heads on this thing, but I want to atleast get try to get it running to get a better idea on the car, maybe all would have been ok regarding the timing belt. I'm doing this is a dirt driveway, so pulling the engine wouldn't be an easy task so I'd have to move the car but then I would need to be throughly prepared and able to complete the job in a couple hours. Right now I'm just working on it here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsports Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Mashed looking. WTH? You won't be able to see the top of the piston unless you take it apart or have a camera like a plumber uses in pipes or what they use for laproscopic surgery or other not so fun things to have. I don't think this is related to heat. Their is no residue. They look mashed, like a plug with the wrong reach was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Looks like some serious detonation to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosnic Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Mashed looking. WTH? You won't be able to see the top of the piston unless you take it apart or have a camera like a plumber uses in pipes or what they use for laproscopic surgery or other not so fun things to have. I don't think this is related to heat. Their is no residue. They look mashed, like a plug with the wrong reach was used. The tool is a borescope.. Would be nice to have they make inexpensive ones for less than $150, but I'm not dumping more into this. But I think that it's from damage too, some of the areas look like they've been hit, but others look melted. But I'm sure it could be both. I think I'm just going to find another engine and call it a day.. is there any information around on if I can put something other than the 2.5 dohc back in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Is it the right plug? Thinking out loud here, but if they put in the wrong plug and it was too big, that could partially explain it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1055 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 My thought exactly. Detonation from jumped timing + spark plug that's too long equals smashed up melted spark plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 i don't think the 97 DOHC ej25 has pistons hitting valves much less hitting spark plugs. but i'm 100% sure. most damage on that engine, bent valves, is caused by valves hitting valves. do a compression test, and maybe a leak down test. this should tell you if the piston is whole. maybe, MAYBE if the spark plug was the wrong one, and WAY too long it could cause damage like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 FYI the $70 Harbor Freight borescope / inspection camera will not fit through spark plug holes. Pretty impressive failure. Was this plug already installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 5, 2012 I Donated Share Posted April 5, 2012 Holy shit -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travgag Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 holy shit +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 5, 2012 I Donated Share Posted April 5, 2012 The engine probably ran lean for some time to cause this. Ignition timing, intake leaks, etc can cause that. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Did you fill your tank with moonshine? It looks like some of the metal melted for sure. But if the spark plug material was compressed quickly enough that could generate enough heat to melt it. Gas will only burn so hot depending upon it's surrounding conditions (initial temperature, atmospheric pressure, and stuff). Pull your heads off and take a look. You can do this while the engine is still in the bay, BTW. Cheaper than getting a scope. Cool pics though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 5, 2012 I Donated Share Posted April 5, 2012 Sure you can...if you jack up the engine several inches with a floor jack. The SAFER option is just to pull the engine out. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 +1 And a much easier way to do a lot of other maintenance. Brok, so many people are bent on not removing their engines, lol. If the engine is out you can do so many wonderful things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 5, 2012 I Donated Share Posted April 5, 2012 It shouldn't take more then 2 hours to pull the engine if you have the right tools. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TbirdMan Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 nobody gonna suggest a dropped/broken off valve? That was my first thought seeing that. Head of valve breaks off and beats the chamber and everything in it to hell. If this is the case you'll probably need at least a new head and piston and it may be better off just scrapping it. Try to get a look in the chamber, this will answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosnic Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 As far as I know it's the right plug but I haven't looked it up. I'm assuming it is because the other plugs were the same and looked perfect. I'm fairly certain that there will be other problems with this.. I know it's all just guessing and speculation without pulling the head or looking in the cylinder but I'm pretty certain of other damage. I do know the engine jumped timing when it was last running, so valves are probably bent regardless. I found a 2.2 for $500 locally so I think I'll just save all the hassle and swap it out... Especially if I have to pull the engine just to get a better idea of the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 do a compression test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosnic Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 FYI the $70 Harbor Freight borescope / inspection camera will not fit through spark plug holes. Pretty impressive failure. Was this plug already installed? Yes, it came out just like that. The porcelin broke on it too on the other end. The plug came out hard the whole way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosnic Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 Did you fill your tank with moonshine? It looks like some of the metal melted for sure. But if the spark plug material was compressed quickly enough that could generate enough heat to melt it. Gas will only burn so hot depending upon it's surrounding conditions (initial temperature, atmospheric pressure, and stuff). Pull your heads off and take a look. You can do this while the engine is still in the bay, BTW. Cheaper than getting a scope. Cool pics though. How the hell do you get them off while it's in the car? I had a hell of a time with the plugs.. let alone a whole head. There must be a huge trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 It shouldn't take more then 2 hours to pull the engine if you have the right tools. Or two weeks if you are me and run into a lot of seized bolts and have never done it before, lol. But that was an EJ22T, so it had a few more hoses. I have never removed the head while the engine was in the bay, but here is a link showing how someone did it to their forester: http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/how-replace-ej25-head-gaskets-without-removing-engine-57335/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosnic Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 Or two weeks if you are me and run into a lot of seized bolts and have never done it before, lol. But that was an EJ22T, so it had a few more hoses. I have never removed the head while the engine was in the bay, but here is a link showing how someone did it to their forester: http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/how-replace-ej25-head-gaskets-without-removing-engine-57335/ Well I found a couple of 2.2's locally.. I'm just going to work on getting this thing pulled and replaced. Once I get it out I'll check out the 2.5 and see what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I pulled this from an 04' Honda Accord V6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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