SSpeed Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 1g or 2g DSM wouldn't be bad either and are really cheap these days... big aftermarket, supports 4-500hp on stock internals... evo3 16g, which is the perfect track turbo, is under $600... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Lots of the BMW engines can make 300whp with turbocharging, but that is obviously somewhat more dangerous and less reliable than running a relatively low compression big V8 Naturally aspirated. For a car you want to beat on without letting up, big V8's have some level of peace of mind built in. Plus, it's a V8 in an E30. That's cool however you slice it up. Good call on the LS. I was just looking on ebay for low mile GTO dropouts. A 2.5 or 3.0 liter inline 6 should be able to make 300whp without being turbocharged. Good flowing heads or head in this case and nice valve train should be able to do it, hell the e46 m3 was a inline 6 that made 270whp stock. I agree a v8 in a E30 is cool, no doubt. Just make sure the 5.0 is atleast cammed, there stock power range is pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I would just buy a foxbody with a 5.0. Cheap, easy power, well balanced with a gigantic aftermarket. Or a mk1 mr2. Cheap, great handling right out of the box and for not that many monies you can make them pretty quick. But then you are driving a car engineered by someone who clearly didn't give a F$%k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Waiting for Rao... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 A 2.5 or 3.0 liter inline 6 should be able to make 300whp without being turbocharged. Good flowing heads or head in this case and nice valve train should be able to do it, hell the e46 m3 was a inline 6 that made 270whp stock. I agree a v8 in a E30 is cool, no doubt. Just make sure the 5.0 is atleast cammed, there stock power range is pretty sad. You'd be surprised. Getting an E36 M3 to break 300whp is nearly unheard of while retaining natural aspiration. To my knowledge, no one has ever successfully swapped the engine from an E46 into an E30. And that engine was VERY high strung, not really leaving anything on the table to make more power. Clearly, the "best" choice would be an LSX in an E30. But I think doing so would really tap the $6k budget without accounting for a suspension/wheels/tires. And to whoever said they'd just get a Foxbody, must have never driven one. They are piles of shit. You'd turn better lap times in a Crown Victoria. I like the DSM idea. They are cheap and can be REALLY fast. I wouldn't waste your time with any variant of GS or GS-T. GSX or nothing. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chutrain Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You'd be surprised. Getting an E36 M3 to break 300whp is nearly unheard of while retaining natural aspiration. To my knowledge, no one has ever successfully swapped the engine from an E46 into an E30. And that engine was VERY high strung, not really leaving anything on the table to make more power. Clearly, the "best" choice would be an LSX in an E30. But I think doing so would really tap the $6k budget without accounting for a suspension/wheels/tires. And to whoever said they'd just get a Foxbody, must have never driven one. They are piles of shit. You'd turn better lap times in a Crown Victoria. I like the DSM idea. They are cheap and can be REALLY fast. I wouldn't waste your time with any variant of GS or GS-T. GSX or nothing. The S54 from the E46 M3 have been successfully swapped into E30s, and will eventually be the choice engine over the S50/S52 swaps. High strung yes, but when swapped into the E30 chassis, it won't overwhelm it. I think the sweet spot for this chassis is 300-350 whp. But swapping the the S54 motor will require $2500-3000 alone to send the ECU and harness to have updated and modified. Get an E30 with a S50/S52 swap done already. They are 240/240 stock on the later motor. They are very driveable and robust motor, and will be plenty for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You'd be surprised. Getting an E36 M3 to break 300whp is nearly unheard of while retaining natural aspiration. To my knowledge, no one has ever successfully swapped the engine from an E46 into an E30. And that engine was VERY high strung, not really leaving anything on the table to make more power. Clearly, the "best" choice would be an LSX in an E30. But I think doing so would really tap the $6k budget without accounting for a suspension/wheels/tires. And to whoever said they'd just get a Foxbody, must have never driven one. They are piles of shit. You'd turn better lap times in a Crown Victoria. I like the DSM idea. They are cheap and can be REALLY fast. I wouldn't waste your time with any variant of GS or GS-T. GSX or nothing. Well I have to admit I have not really looked into modding BMW engines because I have never owned one. I know they are high strung since they rev to 8k+rpms from factory and have a very high comp ratio in most cases. I have a friend who swapped a ls1 into a e36 for around 6k but there would be no money left for suspension/wheel/tires/brakes/cage. He got a shell from a local swap meet for just under 1,000. As for the gsx vs gs-t the GSX is nice because of AWD but some classes are for FWD only and the gs-t might be able to do some damage in those classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The S54 from the E46 M3 have been successfully swapped into E30s, and will eventually be the choice engine over the S50/S52 swaps. High strung yes, but when swapped into the E30 chassis, it won't overwhelm it. I think the sweet spot for this chassis is 300-350 whp. But swapping the the S54 motor will require $2500-3000 alone to send the ECU and harness to have updated and modified. Get an E30 with a S50/S52 swap done already. They are 240/240 stock on the later motor. They are very driveable and robust motor, and will be plenty for most people. That's what I was refering too, the 240hp engines as I figured the e46 engine would be somewhat expensive. Can those s50/s52s be easily built for more power without going FI or are they topped out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chutrain Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Like I said, it will take money to extract good NA power from the S50/S52 motor. I know this guy that has built, but being fully streetable, with about 285WHP and is quick as hell. This was in a E36 M3, so a swap like that into a lighter E30 chassis would be even quicker. This motor is actually not as high strung as the other M motors, but it is technically a M50 bottom end with a better flowing head. Essentially a watered down motor for the States. Everywhere else in the world got the S50B30/S50B32 with 286 and 321 hp at the crank stock. The S50/S52 motor is great for boosting. One of my buddies is running a S50 with turbo and puts out just over 500whp on pump gas. Another one is running an even bigger turbo and shooting for over 700+whp. The first setup is all on stock internals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 For those asking which track. I was initially thinking one with turns, not a drag strip, but it doesn't really matter. As for swaps, sure. I just wanted to see what creative results people would come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1055 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 But then you are driving a car engineered by someone who clearly didn't give a F$%k. Which one are you referring too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1055 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 And I personally would stay away from the 2g dsm; stock engines crank walk like a motherfucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 My problem with the BMW route (swapped or not) is the front struts. I know they're more balanced than our cars but still, if I'm building a straight track rat I don't want deal with camber BS. On the other hand the selection of cars with a proper double wishbone suspension on all corners that could be built into reliable track sluts for under $6k is probably fairly small. I do believe the RX-7 falls in that category though, so if you can find a rolling chassis 2nd or 3rd gen cheap enough build it for $6k that could be a good route. How cheap are basic running C5 vettes these days? Could an old FRC be had for $6k? I'm sure you'd be in more than $6k after building it up, but it might be worthwhile. Great engine, no swap hassle, and a proven fast chassis. Definitely go for the FRC if you can find one over the regular coupe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelwatts Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ez30 2nd gen lego. cheap enough and very trackable according to what i keep on reading over and over and over and over again. it's what i want to do I'm a native of South Carolina. I am a dying breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 My problem with the BMW route (swapped or not) is the front struts. I know they're more balanced than our cars but still, if I'm building a straight track rat I don't want deal with camber BS. On the other hand the selection of cars with a proper double wishbone suspension on all corners that could be built into reliable track sluts for under $6k is probably fairly small. I do believe the RX-7 falls in that category though, so if you can find a rolling chassis 2nd or 3rd gen cheap enough build it for $6k that could be a good route. How cheap are basic running C5 vettes these days? Could an old FRC be had for $6k? I'm sure you'd be in more than $6k after building it up, but it might be worthwhile. Great engine, no swap hassle, and a proven fast chassis. Definitely go for the FRC if you can find one over the regular coupe. 3rd gen rx7s with no engine or trans go for 4500-6k. So you would be at your limit and still have no engine. As far as c5 vettes go you can find some early years for 7-9k with 140-200k miles on em. Some with mechanical or cosmetic issues for 5-6k. The ones in good condition with 100k miles still go for 10k+. Blue book on my 97 when I bought it with 82kmiles was 16,500, I didnt pay that though so you can get em for under blue book. It isn't easy to sell older vettes for blue book in WI in this economy and dealers know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If you really want bang for your buck build a Locost 7. With just 150hp it'd be hard to beat around a track by anything amateur driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 3rd gen rx7s with no engine or trans go for 4500-6k. So you would be at your limit and still have no engine. 3rd gen must be too pretty. How about for a 2nd gen chassis? As far as c5 vettes go you can find some early years for 7-9k with 140-200k miles on em. Some with mechanical or cosmetic issues for 5-6k. The ones in good condition with 100k miles still go for 10k+. Blue book on my 97 when I bought it with 82kmiles was 16,500, I didnt pay that though so you can get em for under blue book. It isn't easy to sell older vettes for blue book in WI in this economy and dealers know this. Cosmetic damage is fine for a track car. Mechanical might be okay depending what it is - could be stuff you'd want to replace anyways. Still sounds like no way you'd have it built for $6k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 3rd gen must be too pretty. How about for a 2nd gen chassis? Cosmetic damage is fine for a track car. Mechanical might be okay depending what it is - could be stuff you'd want to replace anyways. Still sounds like no way you'd have it built for $6k. Yea 3rd gens are too pretty lol. I really wanted to drop a ls1 in one until I started pricing them. I only found two within 300 miles that had no engine and both guys still wanted 5-6k for em. 2nd gen rx7s on the other hand can be had for around 1k with no engine or trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 And I personally would stay away from the 2g dsm; stock engines crank walk like a motherfucker. Did you have it "personally" happen? At this age if they are going to do it they already would have, they are nearing 20 years old... Some '08+ LGTs had spun bearings due to manufacturing problems, would you stay away from there if they were cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 A 1995 Ford Aspire, spend the remaining $5,900 on hookers and booze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1055 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Did you have it "personally" happen? At this age if they are going to do it they already would have, they are nearing 20 years old... Some '08+ LGTs had spun bearings due to manufacturing problems, would you stay away from there if they were cheap? I would never own a dsm for other reasons. I have enough (3 I know personally, more that they know) friends with 2g dsms that have been through at least one short block because of crank walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I would never own a dsm for other reasons. I have enough (3 I know personally, more that they know) friends with 2g dsms that have been through at least one short block because of crank walk. Debating this is silly... the question was a good track car for under $6k... for the cost of admission and cheap power gains, $6k could make a VERY fast DSM... The question wasn't long term reliability.. sure, crankwalk happened to a few cars (due to oil starvation of the thrust bearing), but it was still probably less of a problem than spun rod bearings on '08+ Subarus... in the regional DSM group I was part of I think I saw one case of crankwalk out of all the cars, but again, that wasn't the question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Sigh, power-power-power...boring. To me the trill of a track car is experiencing lateral g-s. For that I'd start with cheap mid-engined chassis. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1055 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Sigh, power-power-power...boring. To me the trill of a track car is experiencing lateral g-s. For that I'd start with cheap mid-engined chassis. Mk1 mr2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 That's what I said too. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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