SurlyOldManMN Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How can anyone claim to be an expert on understeer when they can't even spell it right? Brain damage from the time they learned about understeer the hard way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjweb Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The mercedes is pretty sick. But I think to compare it to a japanese car economy car is pointless. That mercedes costs $61,430 as a base model amg. It has a 451 hp V-8, while our cars make 250. Yeah you can make a legacy faster for 10 grand, but it will never be in the same class as a mercedes. It's like comparing an Escalade to the G-class. Most of us will never be able to afford that Mercedes and if you can then money prob isn't that hard to come by. At that point you can afford to dump cash into that car and it could be a 700 hp mercedes. Apples and oranges. I would rather drive that Mercedes any day, but I drive a legacy GT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjweb Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I agree 120 in the rain is pretty dangerous. I doubt that there is a person on the planet proficient at driving that fast in the rain. Part of driving is also driving safely enough to know that if someone pulls out into the lane your driving in and they are going 40 or 50 miles per hour less then you, you can't safely make high speed maneuvers in the rain at that speed. I doubt that the legacy can even make safe maneuvers at that speed under ideal conditions. No matter how much people want to think it is, the legacy is not a race car and never will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I agree 120 in the rain is pretty dangerous. I doubt that there is a person on the planet proficient at driving that fast in the rain. That's just because you've never seen a Brazilian in an F1 car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yeah there aren't tens of thousands of drivers who race in the rain... [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiyafan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 There are Russians doing even faster speed in the rain on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 There are Russians doing even faster speed in the rain on youtube. Russians..... one group of people you should not base your actions on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Russians..... one group of people you should not base your actions on Unless you want to be f'n awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Unless you want to be f'n awesome. And they can out drink almost anyone. I'd put em up against an Irishman any day. If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I dunno about that. Never underestimate a low center of gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Russians..... one group of people you should not base your actions on Unless you like ruling with an iron fist... [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Unless you like ruling with an iron fist... As opposed to what, a rubber fist? http://i39.tinypic.com/23itn2f.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Unless you like ruling with an iron fist... and lose everything because of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 and lose everything because of it slow deterioration over time, only to somehow rise out of the ashes and become a big deal again, then repeat sad cycle... [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 slow deterioration over time, only to somehow rise out of the ashes and become a big deal again, then repeat sad cycle... All the while continuing to refine the distillation process! Hooray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Because of the F1 regulations. And because in rice conditions RWD car can accelerate better at higher speeds than AWD car, and speed is far more important than handling in F1. In touring car championship RWD car has no advantages over FWD cars. RWD car does not handle better. They might feel better, thay might be more fun. But the numbers state that they are inferior in on road performance to FWD cars and AWD cars. Wait. Speed is more important than handling? That's why they have different compounds of tire, for the HANDLING aspects. Better handling produces faster lap times. It's all about the handling. also, what numbers? you ignored almost everything i said in my post. the numbers actually prove you wrong. argue the actual math. you'll lose every time with FWD. Remember that efficiency thing I mentioned? I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kario Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Wait. Speed is more important than handling? That's why they have different compounds of tire, for the HANDLING aspects. Better handling produces faster lap times. It's all about the handling. also, what numbers? you ignored almost everything i said in my post. the numbers actually prove you wrong. argue the actual math. you'll lose every time with FWD. Remember that efficiency thing I mentioned? I said that speed is more importanda than handling not that it is not importand. Acceleration is most important. Handling is important to the point where is does not hurt acceleration in F1. Look at those videos: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEBt9MWcSYA]2011 BMW 335is Track Tested - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaRen-5dYY]Track Tested: 2012 Buick Regal GS - Inside Line - YouTube[/ame] Look at the RWD BMW how is struggles though the slalom. You can see how the chassis understeers more than Buick and Buick is a larger car. In racing it almost always the acceleration that counts. In power restricted races like rally or touring cars RWD does not dominate. And this is with ~300PS cars. If you lower the power to ~200PS and make a curved track than the race would be dominated by AWD and FWD cars. Its really easy mechanics. Imagine a car that has like 99% of its mass at the rear axis and 1% at the front... and try to make it turn. Than imagine the opposite... it will turn with no problem. 50/50 weight distribution is a myth. This is probably why BRZ is front weight biased. It does not have much power over the rear axis so it does not have to compromise handling for safety like 335 for example. The next myth is a moment of interia. Imagine a car that is going around a curved road. You can decompose the movement into 2 separate movements: - The movement over the flat plane. - The rotational component. Now think how much effort it takes to push the car around the curve. Now imagine a car on a platform on bearings and how much effort it will take to rotate it (like a platform used on auto shows). This is how much a moment of inertia is important in real world driving. BMW puts engine back only because the RWD car must have some weight on the rear axis in order to transmit power. If if would be front weigh biased that it would spin its wheels in place like crazy or overseer like mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Oh boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not going to waste my time explaining how wrong Kario's argument is. I'll just say that I know a LOT more about vehicle dynamics than Kario does, and she is wrong. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Okay. On a side note, that Buick is slow..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaSniper Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmbz14rsrF1qf0cwi.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I said that speed is more importanda than handling not that it is not importand. Acceleration is most important. Handling is important to the point where is does not hurt acceleration in F1. Look at those videos: Look at the RWD BMW how is struggles though the slalom. You can see how the chassis understeers more than Buick and Buick is a larger car. In racing it almost always the acceleration that counts. In power restricted races like rally or touring cars RWD does not dominate. And this is with ~300PS cars. If you lower the power to ~200PS and make a curved track than the race would be dominated by AWD and FWD cars. Its really easy mechanics. Imagine a car that has like 99% of its mass at the rear axis and 1% at the front... and try to make it turn. Than imagine the opposite... it will turn with no problem. 50/50 weight distribution is a myth. This is probably why BRZ is front weight biased. It does not have much power over the rear axis so it does not have to compromise handling for safety like 335 for example. The next myth is a moment of interia. Imagine a car that is going around a curved road. You can decompose the movement into 2 separate movements: - The movement over the flat plane. - The rotational component. Now think how much effort it takes to push the car around the curve. Now imagine a car on a platform on bearings and how much effort it will take to rotate it (like a platform used on auto shows). This is how much a moment of inertia is important in real world driving. BMW puts engine back only because the RWD car must have some weight on the rear axis in order to transmit power. If if would be front weigh biased that it would spin its wheels in place like crazy or overseer like mad. when they make a front wheel drive supercar get back to me. till then, have fun living in your delusional fantasy. I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 when they make a front wheel drive supercar get back to me. till then, have fun living in your delusional fantasy. They already do. Civic Si. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They already do. Civic Si. i had a chuckle. I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 They've stayed away from FWD cars in supercars previously because the technology was not up to speed. Now, as we're seeing numerous FWD cars coming to the market, we will start seeing more FWD supercars because it's better researched and enhanced. Look at things like the Hyundai Sonata Turbo and Kia Optima Turbo. Prime examples of the elegance and functionality that FWD has to offer. It wont be long now until you'll be buying a FWD Porsche boxter, or even a FWD Lotus... Imagine all that understeer, good, safe understeer! If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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