Penguin Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well that all depends on who's in the front seat. If it's a group of midgets, there's loads of room in the back seat. If you're an average height person, there's some room, and if you're tall, you're doing it wrong. I'm pretty sure you could get two tall people in the front seat of the M-B, and then get two midgets in the back with the chassis braces and whatnot, they're short so they can make it work. So that makes it equal to the Legacy in seating capacity of tall people and midgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So was I! Sportage is a great vehicle, making horsepower AND torque with a gasoline engine. My friend has a Sportage. It has a BACK SEAT AND more trunk storage. It also gets better gas mileage! I was simply pointing out that both are automobiles and can be directly compared on objective merits/facts/data. People need to stop fantasizing about these silly expensive cars. Take it easy there heavy metal dick. This is the intarwebs where people talk about things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 people who make jokes then pretend to be serious... why so serious... I was only mocking you in a lighthearted way While we're here, how about youtube links to the various black series cars? Just watched Top Gear CLK63 Black series... never thought I would want a CLK... 'the result of all that weight reduction... it weighs just a bit more than the regular AMG' [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 people who make jokes then pretend to be serious... why so serious... I was only mocking you in a lighthearted way While we're here, how about youtube links to the various black series cars? Just watched Top Gear CLK63 Black series... never thought I would want a CLK... 'the result of all that weight reduction... it weighs just a bit more than the regular AMG' Go big or go home! There is a lot of weight compensation for the extra oil coolers, trans coolers, diff coolers, bigger brakes, etc. Even down to the hood latches being over engineered to handle the higher speeds. If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Go big or go home! There is a lot of weight compensation for the extra oil coolers, trans coolers, diff coolers, bigger brakes, etc. Even down to the hood latches being over engineered to handle the higher speeds. Where are you reading all this?! I. WANT. INFORMATION. There has to be a way to build such a car, given the advent of many high performance European chassis coupled with the LSx / trans / diff packages people are building at low cost... like what Rao did. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Owners manual, visually inspecting the car, etc. It's quite impressive. European cars have potential, depending on the platform, but you're doing a crap ton of work to make a car like a Black rather than just buying a Black and flaunting it. If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?_nkw=black+series+amg&_catref=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m1538&_rdc=1 GT-R price level. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 :wub: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-MERCEDES-560-AMG-WIDEBODY-VERY-RARE-TRUE-AMG-LOW-MILES-/370578378724?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item5648314fe4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users paintpollz Posted January 25, 2012 Mega Users Share Posted January 25, 2012 I know you did this comparison because your buddy has one. so sick. He's got a Black and he's a Helicopter pilot? Does is have a blackbelt and live in the playboy mansion? Without a girlfriend he's clearly master slayer. Straight guys are even turned on by that. Rediculous. But why not compare a modded lgt to the c63 sedan, dont you think there is more "merit" in that? "Remember Danny - Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 I know you did this comparison because your buddy has one. so sick. He's got a Black and he's a Helicopter pilot? Does is have a blackbelt and live in the playboy mansion? Without a girlfriend he's clearly master slayer. Straight guys are even turned on by that. Rediculous. But why not compare a modded lgt to the c63 sedan, dont you think there is more "merit" in that? Actually, he does have a GF. And a New Zealand accent... Quite the stacked deck for anyone going up against him. Comparing the LGT against a C63 sedan isnt quite along the lines of reasonable though. A C63 sedan has more luxury in the passenger seat than an entire LGT. At least they've stripped out some of the luxury on the Black. If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Does is have a blackbelt Straight guys are even turned on by that. No, we aren't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kario Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 A week ago I did a 1000KM trip on an autobahn and other EU highways. With my legacy I just do a 120mph crousing speed in rain and a litte bit of snow. I look at all those big Merc's and BMW's on the right lane doing 2/3 of my speed and wondering why they are moving so slowly while having so much power. RWD sucks. Always. Even FWD cars dive faster and more safely than RWD. You can see this on UE highways what conditions get bad. Accelerating is just like braking in the opposite directions. Do you have brakes on one axis only ? My friend had a SLK 32AMG once. A fast accelerating car. My he did not even try to ride it in snow. And general it was a very unimpressive car. Ugly interior. Cheap and very uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 RWD sucks. Always. Even FWD cars dive faster and more safely than RWD. oh REALLY? That's why F-1 cars are front wheel drive, right? Front wheel drive is ALWAYS going to be inferior to any other drivetrain out there when it comes to speed. The reason why is that you can't have one set of wheels both propelling a vehicle and steering it and hope to outperform much of anything. Why? It's horribly inefficient. Front wheel drive is fine for a pedestrian motor vehicle operator. AWD is great and can provide a myriad of advantages over RWD in CERTAIN APPLICATIONS. But from a purely technical standpoint, when it comes to performance? RWD > All. Why? Efficiency. conclusion: you fail. I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 120 in the "rain and little bit of snow"?? And you wonder why everyone else was going 2/3 of your speed. Really?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kario Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 oh REALLY? That's why F-1 cars are front wheel drive, right? conclusion: you fail. Because of the F1 regulations. And because in rice conditions RWD car can accelerate better at higher speeds than AWD car, and speed is far more important than handling in F1. In touring car championship RWD car has no advantages over FWD cars. RWD car does not handle better. They might feel better, thay might be more fun. But the numbers state that they are inferior in on road performance to FWD cars and AWD cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because of the F1 regulations. And because in rice conditions RWD car can accelerate better at higher speeds than AWD car, and speed is far more important than handling in F1. In touring car championship RWD car has no advantages over FWD cars. RWD car does not handle better. They might feel better, thay might be more fun. But the numbers state that they are inferior in on road performance to FWD cars and AWD cars. Ever hear of understeer? In the snow I prefer RWD to FWD. Sure FWD can pull its self through snow better..... as long as you are going in a straight line. Once you begin to turn or accel on turns you begin to spin the tires which causes understeer which causes you to go straight. With RWD you can power around corners or power out of slides. As long as my car has good tires and some weight in the rear I prefer RWD to FWD even in the snow and on dry roads its not even a question. Take a look at the classes and there times around the same tracks. You will usually notice that the modified FWD class has slower times than the RWD modified class. Now both classes allow for the same mods and weight requirements the only difference is one is for FWD and one is for RWD. I prefer AWD or 4x4 in snow to either FWD or RWD... thats a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kario Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 O5GT Guru, have you ever driven a car on a snow ? FWD car will understeer like you have said, but only if you will turn and push throttle at the same time. This is called power induced understear. RWD car in the same situation will spin. Much less control. In FWD you can take the power of the front wheels and regain traction and maneuverability. In RWD you will continue spinning. But in general RWD understear more... this is because of the understear designed into suspension. Every car understears because it is safe. But RWD car must undersear more to have a larger margin for the power induced overstear. RWD cars are designed so the front end looses grip far before the rear to be more safe. The more power the RWD car has (this is of course different for different cars) the more understate it has to have dialed in its suspension to be a safe car. If you turn in without pushing the throttle to the floor than FWD car will behave much better on snow and generally all conditions than FWD. Just go and look for slalom tests for example (don't look at lateral acceleration tests they are worth noting as that only test power induced understear not general driving dynamic of a chasis...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm going to build a front wheel drive Top Fuel dragster just to prove you all wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 O5GT Guru, have you ever driven a car on a snow ? FWD car will understeer like you have said, but only if you will turn and push throttle at the same time. This is called power induced understear. RWD car in the same situation will spin. Much less control. In FWD you can take the power of the front wheels and regain traction and maneuverability. In RWD you will continue spinning. But in general RWD understear more... this is because of the understear designed into suspension. Every car understears because it is safe. But RWD car must undersear more to have a larger margin for the power induced overstear. RWD cars are designed so the front end looses grip far before the rear to be more safe. The more power the RWD car has (this is of course different for different cars) the more understate it has to have dialed in its suspension to be a safe car. If you turn in without pushing the throttle to the floor than FWD car will behave much better on snow and generally all conditions than FWD. Just go and look for slalom tests for example (don't look at lateral acceleration tests they are worth noting as that only test power induced understear not general driving dynamic of a chasis...). I drive in snow every winter which happens happens every year up here in Wisconsin. I have driven and owned FWD, RWD and AWD cars/trucks. I prefer RWD in the snow over FWD as I feel and KNOW I have more control over the car once it is in a slide. Letting off the throttle in a FWD car once you are already in a slide means one of two things will happen, either it will swing the rear end around and get traction or if you are too far into the slide you will spin out. With a rwd car you can power out of the slide which gives you more control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 A week ago I did a 1000KM trip on an autobahn and other EU highways. With my legacy I just do a 120mph crousing speed in rain and a litte bit of snow. I look at all those big Merc's and BMW's on the right lane doing 2/3 of my speed and wondering why they are moving so slowly while having so much power. RWD sucks. Always. Even FWD cars dive faster and more safely than RWD. You can see this on UE highways what conditions get bad. Accelerating is just like braking in the opposite directions. Do you have brakes on one axis only ? My friend had a SLK 32AMG once. A fast accelerating car. My he did not even try to ride it in snow. And general it was a very unimpressive car. Ugly interior. Cheap and very uncomfortable. If you were doing 120 mph on the Autobahn in the rain, then you sir, are an irresponsible idiot ! You were passing everyone else, because they were doing the enforced speed limit which comes into effect on the Autobahns in inclement weather. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you were doing 120 mph on the Autobahn in the rain, then you sir, are an irresponsible idiot ! You were passing everyone else, because they were doing the enforced speed limit which comes into effect on the Autobahns in inclement weather. You just dont know how to drive... If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you live in an area where it rains &/or snows most of the year, drive your boring-ass fwd car for as long as you like/live, as suicide rates are much higher in these areas as well .... Oh hell, just do us all a favor & kill yourself. /problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 hah! I came in here expecting some LGT leg humping against impossible competition. Pleasantly surprised... I might have to rent an AMG something or other for a day just for kicks. Always hear good things about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you were doing 120 mph on the Autobahn in the rain, then you sir, are an irresponsible idiot ! You were passing everyone else, because they were doing the enforced speed limit which comes into effect on the Autobahns in inclement weather. Agree, go into a slide at 120mph and I bet even your godlike AWD would not save you. Oh an there are many BMWs and mercs with AWD. Those companies have that technology as well. So those cars could have very well had AWD as well they just didn't want to put themselves and there families at risk doing 120mph in the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How can anyone claim to be an expert on understeer when they can't even spell it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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