boxkita Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Here is the question for you... Are the tires, suspension etc the same? What are your lap times like before/after? If your lap times are the same, then I would start to investigate your calipers, make sure they aren't sticking. Next I would change 1 variable and see if there is any difference. Changing more than 1 variable at a time will not yield good test data. Please keep us posted. -mike When I melted the paint, nothing had changed except the brake system (new remanufactured stock calipers, new fluid, new pads, new rotors, removed the backing plates, new hubs). However, going from HPS+ to DTC60/70 made a huge difference in fade resistance. As in they didnt. :-) So, I didnt let them cool down every 3 laps. When I boiled the brake fluid, I had switched from SuperSports to R1's (the only car change). And I changed my driving style from "preserve the car" to "the tow bill for 100 miles cant be that bad". The brake fluid probably boiled when I 'dynamited' the brakes to avoid the cars in front of me who were avoiding the leader who overcooked the braking zone and slid off the track. Less than a car following distance can have unexpected side effects when things go wrong. Both instances, my lap times were dropping like a rock. The first instance, I took 10 secs of PB and 15 secs off my avg. The second instance, I dropped 15 secs off PB (maybe more), and 20 secs off my avg. For next season, I need to figure out to keep the brakes cool (ducting), replace the hubs (going for custom build with upgraded grease and polished races), replace the GS AOS with, likely, Crawford V2 with supplemental catch can. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan04103 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I won't tell you what to get as there are far more knowledgeable people on here than me but I run stoptech blanks and street pads for dd and love them! Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTPpilot Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Running Plain 'ol Centric Premium Rotors and Hawk PC (performance ceramic) at all four corners. Just put them in last week and am very happy. Just as an aside I got a Motive Power Bleeder for my birthday and flushing the fluid was very easy and dare I say fun ! I have run the centric / hawk pc combo on other cars and pretty much knew what to expect. Good combo for my daily driver. Got mine from IP & T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subawang Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 When I boiled the brake fluid, I had switched from SuperSports to R1's (the only car change). Going from a street tire to a good R-compound will make you faster in the corners, which will make you faster in the straights. Braking from higher speeds will result in more heat. Plus you mentioned significantly dropping your laptimes. I've also been able to boil ATE. For me, I've got Ti shims and use Motul 600. Maybe give this a try before fabbing up ducts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've also been able to boil ATE. For me, I've got Ti shims and use Motul 600. Maybe give this a try before fabbing up ducts? Why would "Ti shims" help (assuming titanium shims)? The fluid was Motul 600. Unless there is Motul 1000, upgrading the fluid isnt going to help much. The brakes have gotten so hot in the past that I've been black-flagged for having glowing rotors. The heat in that area is so extreme that the brand new hubs were sounding just like the 20k miles hubs I took off by the end of the day. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subawang Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Why would "Ti shims" help (assuming titanium shims)? The fluid was Motul 600. Unless there is Motul 1000, upgrading the fluid isnt going to help much. The brakes have gotten so hot in the past that I've been black-flagged for having glowing rotors. The heat in that area is so extreme that the brand new hubs were sounding just like the 20k miles hubs I took off by the end of the day. You mentioned boiling ATE but not Motul. If you are boiling Motul and have glowing rotors, it seems you are in desperate need of some cooling and/or moving to a BBK. The Ti shims are working good enough for me - they prevent some of the heat within the pads from making their way into the caliper and fluid. FYI, I choose to track on star specs specifically to keep the budget in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 You mentioned boiling ATE but not Motul. If you are boiling Motul and have glowing rotors, it seems you are in desperate need of some cooling and/or moving to a BBK. The Ti shims are working good enough for me - they prevent some of the heat within the pads from making their way into the caliper and fluid. FYI, I choose to track on star specs specifically to keep the budget in check. Ah, I see, I put the wrong brake fluid name in my previous post. Last 2 days was Motul 600, trying to fix brake overheating issues. I'll have to try the shims, and the ducting. BBK is going to have to wait, unless I can get a really great deal. I've already spent 40% of next year's budget on safety items and tires for this season. Even if I could find a good deal, I'm not totally convinced its going to help. Although ease of changing the pads is a plus. The tire/wheel spend this year was astronomical. Partly due to bad choices, and partly due the big drop in lap times equates to faster tire wear. For next year, I'll be looking for a less expensive tire solution. There are places that sell used race comp tires for a fraction of new. I waited too long this season to get anything decent, so will try earlier next time. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 We sell both the Motul 600 and the ATE Superblue. If you look at the numbers, they are nearly identical. The Motul 600 has a marginally better ability to take heat but either should be fine. We use the ATE Blue and Motul 600 to alternate when flushing -Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogos Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 boxkita, that's not the first time you are reporting really crazy brake temps. Something is not right here. I bet you are much faster on the track than I am, track different, driver different, maybe more agressive pads, still in 100F weather I was getting close to 500F on centrics and EBCs. 20 minute sessions and I wasn't easy on them either. Friend in heavier MS6 and much more aggressive pads was hitting 700 but that dude drives like a frickin maniac. Again it's not a fair comparison I agree given all variables still, maybe you do have sticking calipers or something ....but then again that is so easy to spot I am sure you would notice. I had a pin (that's how you call these?) hydrolocked on my previous car caliper from excessive amount of grease but again that's so obvious during installation. Very interesting to see what ducts could do in this situation. I am also interested your opinion guys on those Ti shims. If they work and if heat transfer is indeed slowed ....well the heat has to go somewhere so it will go into rotor or pad or both. I thought that one of the advantages of bigger calipers is the fact that they help dissipate heat faster? To a degree you want heat transfer into calipers, hubs and eventually wheels, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 boxkita, that's not the first time you are reporting really crazy brake temps. Something is not right here. I bet you are much faster on the track than I am, track different, driver different, maybe more agressive pads, still in 100F weather I was getting close to 500F on centrics and EBCs. 20 minute sessions and I wasn't easy on them either. Friend in heavier MS6 and much more aggressive pads was hitting 700 but that dude drives like a frickin maniac. Again it's not a fair comparison I agree given all variables still, maybe you do have sticking calipers or something ....but then again that is so easy to spot I am sure you would notice. I had a pin (that's how you call these?) hydrolocked on my previous car caliper from excessive amount of grease but again that's so obvious during installation. Very interesting to see what ducts could do in this situation. As I have never "raced" only "tracked" my wagon, its hard to say what's different about my experiences with my brakes. I've had multiple current & ex-racers ride with me, no one has commented on the braking except to tell me to wait longer, brake harder & then get off them sooner. With each track day, I was pushing those limits closer and closer to what a Pro3 car was doing (comparing my lapping data to high-placing Pro3 driver's data). I still run the stock legacy calipers, as I never got conclusive data that a BBK could justify the cost. My last weekend on the track (when I boiled the brake fluid), I had brand new calipers, rotors, pads, and hubs installed 2 days before. About a lap before I dynamited the brakes, I could tell the right side hubs were getting cooked (noise and steering wheel kickback). The car would have been done by the end of the session, any way. Talking to fellow "lappers" in my same range, they were going thru tires/brake pads/discs at the same rate or faster than me. A few have heavier cars (Boss Mustangs) and a few have lighter (Porsche 911). As there was only one time that I ran with a Legacy, I have very little data to compare how I was driving to another Legacy. The one time I drove another car (caged STi, with a @6k redline)...I passed people that I could not in my car. The cooling effect of ducting was the next upgrade on the list before I ran out of money for the year. As I was making up the "to fix" list, I was offered a great deal on a Spec Miata outfit. At this time, the desire to further explore the limits of braking on the legacy are not high on the priority list. Had I stuck with it, my plans were to do the following: 1. add naca ducts into the undertray to feed hoses into the hub & discs 2. contact a local race shop to have custom hubs made that could be rebuilt with more durable grease and polished surfaces 3. look at either the Wilwood BBK or the Porsche Panamerica (4 door 911) brakes (R&H has done a conversion onto a STi racecar) 4. Put in a full rollcage, seat & harnesses. The last session I was upshifting to 5th gear at ~130 and telling myself "dont crash, dont crash...". Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racedoll Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I have dba 4000 Slotted and Hawk pads all the way around. Very happy with them. The same but not all the way around, just front got replaced back in November. So far very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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