Stage 2 hell

[compsurge]

UGH!!!

 

Get some sleep, unplug the ecu, and try plugging it in again tomorrow

 

Video could help as well.

 

Are you an 05-06? If so, the vag-com cable is $15 shipped to your door off ebay and that would be all you need. Are you getting tuned open source?

[TPLGT]

In for solution....I hope it gets squared away, soon. This stuff is very frustrating!

[compsurge]

If it makes you feel better, I've been chasing a mechanical noise that trips my knock sensor a lot. I think I've narrowed it down to clutch/dual mass flywheel so that is getting replaced next month.

[HCF]

UGH!!!

 

Get some sleep, unplug the ecu, and try plugging it in again tomorrow

 

Video could help as well.

 

Are you an 05-06? If so, the vag-com cable is $15 shipped to your door off ebay and that would be all you need. Are you getting tuned open source?

 

Alright cable is on its way. I have the battery disconnected overnight, I will search for the ecu plug tomorrow afternoon. Yes the vehicle is an 05, I believe it is open source, my tuner just called it an ecu flash. Basically 1 map "done right" not different ones to change to like an accessport.

 

In for solution....I hope it gets squared away, soon. This stuff is very frustrating!

 

Thank you, I'm excited to complete it also.

 

If it makes you feel better, I've been chasing a mechanical noise that trips my knock sensor a lot. I think I've narrowed it down to clutch/dual mass flywheel so that is getting replaced next month.

 

 

Ouch, I ditched the dual mass about 15k ago. 07 style w/ a oe disc/pressure plate is a great way to go i'm very pleased with it. Was able to source it from "fred beans parts." I'd honestly rather drop the trans again than this misfire bs haha.

 

Alright everyone, mini-coma time for me.

 

Thanks.

[compsurge]

 

Ouch, I ditched the dual mass about 15k ago. 07 style w/ a oe disc/pressure plate is a great way to go i'm very pleased with it. Was able to source it from "fred beans parts." I'd honestly rather drop the trans again than this misfire bs haha.

 

 

Thanks.

 

You are full of jokes

 

In all seriousness, it wasn't that bad a job (brother's '05)- the only hangup was that the vendor sent 5/6 flywheel bolts and one stud (which wasn't realized until the old one was off), so we ran around like chicken with head cut off. Even with a lift, it still took about 13 hours. I think the next time it's more like a 6 hour job. I'll probably get the ACT HD Street and 07 OEM FW combo.

 

Here's to luck!

[BAC5.2]

Which part is the lesson, all hell will break loose when you try to put 2 exhaust pipes on a perfectly running car? This is a mishap and likely a coincidence, I dont believe my vehicle should discourage the forum from toying with theirs lol.

 

The lesson, is that maintenance should be done independently of modification.

 

You'd be able to diagnose things much more easily if you did one thing at a time.

 

The next step back from the coil, is the ECU. If your problem didn't change with the coil swap, then pull the plugs. Put new OEM plugs in, and button it back up.

[HCF]

You are full of jokes

 

In all seriousness, it wasn't that bad a job (brother's '05)- the only hangup was that the vendor sent 5/6 flywheel bolts and one stud (which wasn't realized until the old one was off), so we ran around like chicken with head cut off. Even with a lift, it still took about 13 hours. I think the next time it's more like a 6 hour job. I'll probably get the ACT HD Street and 07 OEM FW combo.

 

Here's to luck!

 

Bring it on over, I'll do your clutch twice if you fix mine.

 

The lesson, is that maintenance should be done independently of modification.

 

You'd be able to diagnose things much more easily if you did one thing at a time.

 

The next step back from the coil, is the ECU. If your problem didn't change with the coil swap, then pull the plugs. Put new OEM plugs in, and button it back up.

 

 

True, it would have been easier to diagnosis. As I believe I stated in the first post, I was just taking my tuners reccomendation on throwing in a colder plug before the tune, the plugs were not all that old and I likely would have left them alone until timing belt time.

 

 

 

UPDATE: Well, got a little time to tinker today. No new result, but can eliminate a couple things.

 

-Swapped injectors from 3-1, No change. (what is everyone on this forum whining about? They are easy to get at! Don't be afraid of a little coolant!)

 

-Pulled every plug/ coil. Did a compression test. Compression tester was rented from autozone, please do not use the numbers for accuracy. I do however feel the gauge is consistant. All values ranged between 42-46PSI and were checked 3 times/ cylinder with no more than +/- 2 PSI variance. Again, I realize these numbers seem super low and I will try to get another tester for kicks, but I believe the consistancy proves it is not an internal problem.

 

I found this interesting. Plugs 1/4 looked normal, with a tan tip. Plug 2 had just a tinnyy bit of carbon/ rich look on the tip, but was majority tan.

 

**Plug 3 (Cylinder having misfire) is absolutely brand new. Chromeish tip/ not fired. AHH!

 

Well, where from here. I have switched the coils, does anyone know how to test the wiring to the plug accurately? I can tell you one gets power as I stated before, in a pulsation which seemed normal for it firing. I have not tinkered with my multimeter in sometime, could use a refresher.

 

I ordered the vag-com cable. Haven't got a tracking number yet. I over paid a little, but the 10-15 dollar cables seemed to be in China, so I searched until something domestic came up. I'm hoping this will get it to me sooner, but I suppose I'm at the mercy of the sender/ fine delivery service of their choice.

 

 

**Additional thought** I am going to contact my bodyshop tomorrow. The car was having the quarters resprayed for small rust bubbles (under that plastic piece) and I do not believe it was enough for metal replacement to be necessary. But! If they did any welding on the car, there is a possibility it could have fried the computer if precautions were not taken. Super long shot, but at this point a friendly question to the shop can help me at least eliminate this crazy thought from my head.

 

 

Thanks for the read, gotta be getting this surrounded!

 

-Matt

[compsurge]

Those compression numbers are scary, but I think that something isn't right with that gauge since my numbers were 140 even on all 4, and good compression is somewhere in the 130+ psi range if I recall correctly. That ignition coil is suspect for there being no spark (#3). Have you got a chance to run with the swapped coil? Also are you sure it was seated right? You can get them in with brute force and not contact the plug. If it doesn't slip right on and push in with a pinky finger of effort, it's not on right.

 

 

Good luck!

[mike677]

^^^this ... 46 psi is very low maybe the testers bad I don't think you have that much blow by ... get another tester and try it again

[BAC5.2]

Make sure the gauge isn't calibrated for 100 psi. There are some gauges that read 0-100, and the base activation pressure is 100psi.

 

It would be almost impossible for you to have that consistency across 4 bad cylinders, though.

 

If the #3 isn't firing, I am betting one of the coils got damaged during removal.

[turbodog]

**Plug 3 (Cylinder having misfire) is absolutely brand new. Chromeish tip/ not fired. AHH!

 

Well, where from here. I have switched the coils, does anyone know how to test the wiring to the plug accurately? I can tell you one gets power as I stated before, in a pulsation which seemed normal for it firing. I have not tinkered with my multimeter in sometime, could use a refresher.

 

Yep, not suprising. You are getting some sort of spark but it is too weak and is being blown out. The manual should have some sort of target resistance measurement for the wiring, and troubleshooting........doesn't it?

 

Have you searched over on nasioc?

 

As far as the compression test - was the motor completely cold? 140ish is normal on a hot motor, I usually do mine "warm" and get consistant mid 120's on my tester.

[mike677]

But he said that he changed the bad coil around and it stayed throwing the misfiring cyl. Three code

[BigTDogg MA]

I susupect the coil connector.

[HCF]

Those compression numbers are scary, but I think that something isn't right with that gauge since my numbers were 140 even on all 4, and good compression is somewhere in the 130+ psi range if I recall correctly. That ignition coil is suspect for there being no spark (#3). Have you got a chance to run with the swapped coil? Also are you sure it was seated right? You can get them in with brute force and not contact the plug. If it doesn't slip right on and push in with a pinky finger of effort, it's not on right.

 

 

Good luck!

 

 

Yep ran it with the coil swapped, no change. Confident the coil was seated, I have done plugs one other time since owning the car so I had a feel for it, when it catches, I remove it, add a little di-electric grease then retry until it slips right on. Wow that was a terrible run-on sentance.

 

^^^this ... 46 psi is very low maybe the testers bad I don't think you have that much blow by ... get another tester and try it again

 

 

Agreed, I really dont believe there is anything internally wrong. I wonder if the thread is the same for my fuel pressure tester, I may be able to swap that over. The numbers are consistant, that is more important the the accuracy, though I agree an accurate compression test would put that to rest.

Make sure the gauge isn't calibrated for 100 psi. There are some gauges that read 0-100, and the base activation pressure is 100psi.

 

It would be almost impossible for you to have that consistency across 4 bad cylinders, though.

 

If the #3 isn't firing, I am betting one of the coils got damaged during removal.

 

Hm, That would be great and healthy numbers, doesnt say anything on the face of the gauge and it didnt come with any kind of paperwork.

 

I would have thought the damaged coil would present itself as an issue in a different cylinder when reinstalled, maybe i'll switch between 3-2 this time to get that coil in the opposite bank to see what it does.

 

I am not at all opposed to buying a coil, but it just seems like flushing money when the obvious "swap coils" trial has presented no change.

 

 

Yep, not suprising. You are getting some sort of spark but it is too weak and is being blown out. The manual should have some sort of target resistance measurement for the wiring, and troubleshooting........doesn't it?

 

Have you searched over on nasioc?

 

As far as the compression test - was the motor completely cold? 140ish is normal on a hot motor, I usually do mine "warm" and get consistant mid 120's on my tester.

 

No, I have never used nasioc, I will try to get a free minute to browse over there. Have not located it in the manual just yet, but I am not all the way through.

 

You are braver than I. I never remove a hot spark plug.

 

But he said that he changed the bad coil around and it stayed throwing the misfiring cyl. Three code

 

Correct. Swapped coils and injectors, replaced plugs, changed back to original, then replaced with a different new set. All have had no change.

 

I susupect the coil connector.

 

Even if this is not the issue, I want a new plug for the heck of it. It has been damaged since I owned the car and never been problematic, but I am trying to source one now. Anyone have a wrecked legacy in a yard nearby? I wonder if the older/ different model subarus use the same plug.

 

 

**UPDATE - Spoke with the body shop today. They said there is absolutely no chance any welding happened on my vehicle. The bubbles were small enough he said he didnt even need to use filler, the high build primer fixed the tiny pits.

 

Last ditch efforts before I open my wallet, bend over, and drop it at a shop:

 

-wait for vag-com cable/ learn to use it/ post data that hopefully is meaningful to someone

 

-replace coil connector

 

-use multimeter to check coil/ harness side for accurate figures. (resistance I assume? Ohms?)

 

-buy an ignition coil and throw it in just because stranger things have happened

 

-hope someone local chimes in and offers to let me use their ECU for a half hour, just to rule it out.

 

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

-Matt

 

-

[HCF]

Nevermind!

[CapnJack]

Some more things to check...

 

On the coil plug (not the coil, but the wiring harness connector) you should have.

 

Black/Yellow wire should go to ground (check resistance with ohm meter) (Pin #2)

Black wire should have ~12 volts DC with ignition turned on (battery voltage) (Pin #3)

Brown/Yellow wire (this indicates it is in fact cylinder #3 plug) would go to ECU and tell coil to fire. I'm not sure if this one can be tested. (Pin #1)

 

 

Cylinder #1 harness colors should be Black/Yellow on Pin #2, Black on Pin #3 and Blue/Yellow on Pin #1.

[turbodog]

 

No, I have never used nasioc, I will try to get a free minute to browse over there. Have not located it in the manual just yet, but I am not all the way through.

 

You are braver than I. I never remove a hot spark plug.

 

-

 

Nasioc has been messing up these motors for many, many years....its a very big forum.

 

RTFM!!! Lol. You want the section "Diagnostics for Engine Starting Failure" which has a full ignition troubleshoot with stuff to measure.

 

Compression tests are supposed to be done hot. Drive the car getting it up to full temp, park it and take it apart as quick as possible. I'm not that quick so I end up with a warm motor. But I'm assuming you're testing cold.....so.....?

[HCF]

Some more things to check...

 

On the coil plug (not the coil, but the wiring harness connector) you should have.

 

Black/Yellow wire should go to ground (check resistance with ohm meter) (Pin #2)

Black wire should have ~12 volts DC with ignition turned on (battery voltage) (Pin #3)

Brown/Yellow wire (this indicates it is in fact cylinder #3 plug) would go to ECU and tell coil to fire. I'm not sure if this one can be tested. (Pin #1)

 

 

Cylinder #1 harness colors should be Black/Yellow on Pin #2, Black on Pin #3 and Blue/Yellow on Pin #1.

 

Great, thank you! I will do this tomorrow after work and report back.

 

Nasioc has been messing up these motors for many, many years....its a very big forum.

 

RTFM!!! Lol. You want the section "Diagnostics for Engine Starting Failure" which has a full ignition troubleshoot with stuff to measure.

 

Compression tests are supposed to be done hot. Drive the car getting it up to full temp, park it and take it apart as quick as possible. I'm not that quick so I end up with a warm motor. But I'm assuming you're testing cold.....so.....?

 

 

haha, I really do have some reading to do, Its been tough to find the time this past week. I was always told to never touch a hot spark plug as heat expansion increases your risk of breakign the plug. I have removed 3 broken plugs in my life, 2 fords and one GM. None of which I would enjoy reliving, so I just assumed a cold compression test would be fine. Also, I really don't want to heat it to operating temperature until it stops misfiring, it does it immediately when it starts.

[HCF]

**RESULT! Got another compression tester last night, this gauge gave me between 118-126 throughout the cylinders. A little low, but much improved and mind you this is a cold motor.

 

This prompted me to put the plugs/ coils back in, and I treated them like a tire rotation lol 1-4, 3-2, I figured I didnt have anything to lose. Unplugged ECU as reccomended on here, battery was also disconnected (between compression test spins.)

 

It runs. I changed nothing, replaced nothing, did nothing. Still all of the same components, the ECU unplug must have worked? Thank you to everyone that kept throwing ideas at me, so happy to have it running.

 

I took it very easy around town, but put about 8 miles on it just to be sure the CEL is not going to come back for a misfire right away. Car is parked and awaiting the trip to be tuned.

 

Sigh of relief.

[ruggerheist]

congrats man, i wouldve set it on fire long ago

[compsurge]

ALL RIGHT Glad to see it is working right!

 

Yeah I'm with ruggerheist. My intermittant issue drives me crazy, but when she decides to run right, she runs right and all my negativity instantly vanishes

[EpicRasta]

Yay!!! good for you! I'm sure that a really good feeling. These cars are a bit temperamental. I recall unplugging the MAF to reseat/adjust the airbox. I'd replaced the air filter a while back and it never closed all the way. Anyway, I connected everything back together and it started up with a CEL. I shut the car off, unplugged, then replugged the MAF, started the car, no CEL. Then about 4 blocks from the house...CEL. Got to a gas station, unplugged, replugged, started...no CEL.

 

Anyway, congrats....look forward to seeing your dyno numbers and tune!

[turbodog]

This prompted me to put the plugs/ coils back in, and I treated them like a tire rotation lol 1-4, 3-2, I figured I didnt have anything to lose. Unplugged ECU as reccomended on here, battery was also disconnected (between compression test spins.)

 

It runs. I changed nothing, replaced nothing, did nothing. Still all of the same components, the ECU unplug must have worked? Thank you to everyone that kept throwing ideas at me, so happy to have it running.

 

Humm. Very interesting if it was an ECU glitch.

 

So you swapped the coils between sides - maybe they were originally switched during the original plug change and there was a weak connection between one combo of coil and connector?

 

 

I took it very easy around town, but put about 8 miles on it just to be sure the CEL is not going to come back for a misfire right away. Car is parked and awaiting the trip to be tuned.

 

 

How's it running without the tune?

[BigTDogg MA]

Congrats man, it's a great feeling when things start running right! Like when you're trying to break a stuck bolt free, and you hear the pop sound. Not like when you hear the snap sound and try to break your breaker bar over your knee.

[HCF]

Humm. Very interesting if it was an ECU glitch.

 

So you swapped the coils between sides - maybe they were originally switched during the original plug change and there was a weak connection between one combo of coil and connector?

 

 

 

How's it running without the tune?

 

 

Possible. I figured I had overthought during this whole process.. just happy to have it sorted out.

 

Idles a little more lopey than I remember, and smells VERRY rich from the exhaust. Also seems to have a little bit of a buck ~ 1100 rpms. Have been very light on the throttle and shifted before 3k only. Dropping it for the tune hopefully tomorrow, if not thursday.