I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 10, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted April 10, 2011 updated some info. added an engine list -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 2 minor things. 1) The EJ22G was the 22B motor, not just any Impreza STi motor. Finding one will be next to impossible. 2) The STi V3 5MT and a stage 1 clutch is not 400whp capable. Neither is a stock 2.0L Subaru shortblock. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 10, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted April 10, 2011 2 minor things. 1) The EJ22G was the 22B motor, not just any Impreza STi motor. Finding one will be next to impossible. 2) The STi V3 5MT and a stage 1 clutch is not 400whp capable. Neither is a stock 2.0L Subaru shortblock. 1 - ill edit that in later 2 - ive been told different by several people including the shop that did my tune. I might try and go up to 400, but ill wait until I have the funds to replace the shortblock should something happen Sent from my Android powered HTC HD2 -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 You were told the engine, or the transmission, were good to 400whp? Neither is true, I'm afraid. I've yet to see a stock EJ20 (JDM or otherwise) make that kind of power with any reliability. Above 300whp, a stock 5MT is on borrowed time. The higher final drive helps, but doesn't solve. The clutch definitely cannot handle 400whp, especially if driven like you have 400whp. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 11, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted April 11, 2011 You were told the engine, or the transmission, were good to 400whp? Neither is true, I'm afraid. I've yet to see a stock EJ20 (JDM or otherwise) make that kind of power with any reliability. Above 300whp, a stock 5MT is on borrowed time. The higher final drive helps, but doesn't solve. The clutch definitely cannot handle 400whp, especially if driven like you have 400whp. I've been talking to several local people who build these cars about it and they all seem to agree that I'll be able to hit 400, or close to it with the current engine / trans if I do bigger injectors and a bigger turbo. The biggest concern is the clutch slipping under the power....some say it probably wont, and some say it probably will. You have to remember, the 20R does not have the same internals as the USDM 2.0 -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I'd be surprised if the motor could handle 400whp with any reliability over the long run. I KNOW the trans won't hold up to that kind of power if you drive the car like it's got 400whp. If you just limp around, barely going WOT and barely launching or shifting aggressively, then it'll definitely hold up. But what's the point of having 400whp if you don't use it? Higher final drives help, but they don't solve. I made 400whp in a stock EJ22T. I KNOW I couldn't have pushed it that hard for much longer. In fact, when I sold the car, the new owner put the old turbo back on it and stuck to ~265ish whp until his brother wrecked it. I had long ago blown the stock transmission, and had a straight cut dogbox. The Exedy Stage-1 clutch I had in the car was entirely incapable of handling 400whp. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 11, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted April 11, 2011 Here you go - almost 100000 miles on a stock 5MT @ 350 to the wheels that has been dragged frequently My old stock 5MT lived at 350 hp for 97000 miles and 500 drag launches before 3rd gear let go while simply passing a car casually (not WOT and only pressed gas to pass and maybe 5 psi). I got a 6MT and gave the busted 5sp away.....dude finally opened it and sent me the pics of it. Yup 3rd gear is SHREDDED. Believe me, I fully understand that modified cars will not last as long as stock cars before a part fails. Anyone who knows the basics of automotive knows that as well. Most people who will be interested in turbo swap info for the BD Legacy will daily drive their car, with occasional track time and spirited driving. SOMETIMES these cars will be driven to their potential, however most of the time will be driving under normal conditions. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybaluga32 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Being as it is a turbo faq, can you post some more about EM? Piggyback options.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 13, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted April 13, 2011 Being as it is a turbo faq, can you post some more about EM? Piggyback options.. I'll update a post with engine management options within the next few days. There is tons of information to cover, and I'm slowly adding more and more when I have time. More details on EM is on the to-do list, I just haven't got to it yet. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted April 15, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted April 15, 2011 Added a BUNCH of stuff to read -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmd003 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 For the record, open-source engine management is not an option for our cars, because they use a JECS ECU. Newer Subaru's use DENSO ECU's, which can be flashed with open-source programs like RomRaider and EcuFlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted May 11, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted May 11, 2011 For the record, open-source engine management is not an option for our cars, because they use a JECS ECU. Newer Subaru's use DENSO ECU's, which can be flashed with open-source programs like RomRaider and EcuFlash. Excellent point....and thats why I did not include Open Source Tuning in the FAQ -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmd003 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Excellent point....and thats why I did not include Open Source Tuning in the FAQ Aware lol. It was in the quoted post from NASIOC about the different engine management options so just making sure it was clear, because I spent some time researching lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted May 11, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted May 11, 2011 Aware lol. It was in the quoted post from NASIOC about the different engine management options so just making sure it was clear, because I spent some time researching lol. eek I didn't notice it was in the quoted text. I'll have to add a disclaimer. Thanks for noticing that. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmd003 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 No problem. Just doing my part lol. EDIT: Apparently Cobb AP won't work for us either, and EcuTek only works for MY99 and up (so not really us either). TurboXS Utec costs like $1000, not positive if that will even work for us. So pretty much, if you're not running a WRX/STi ECU, your engine management options are narrowed down to standalone, though if you do a WRX/STi swap, you should be using the appropriate corresponding ECU, or standalone if you are doing a JDM swap. For the rest of us looking for engine management, option so far looks like gReddy Emanage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted May 12, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted May 12, 2011 No problem. Just doing my part lol. EDIT: Apparently Cobb AP won't work for us either, and EcuTek only works for MY99 and up (so not really us either). TurboXS Utec costs like $1000, not positive if that will even work for us. So pretty much, if you're not running a WRX/STi ECU, your engine management options are narrowed down to standalone, though if you do a WRX/STi swap, you should be using the appropriate corresponding ECU, or standalone if you are doing a JDM swap. For the rest of us looking for engine management, option so far looks like gReddy Emanage. I know Emanage works, but I'm not too clear on the others. I know more about stand alones then I do piggybacks. Let it be noted that you CAN run stock WRX / STI ecu with the JDM engines, however you will NEED a piggyback to be able to tune it. That may be more cost efficent then switching to a full stand alone system. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The UTEC will work, you just need to build the harness. The TurboXS DTEC Fuel/timing controller will work as well. The E-manage works, as does the PP6 (Perfect Power 6, from Rallitek). It's just a matter of looking at what other people have done. You could also build a Megasquirt. Plenty of first-gen turbos have been successfully run using a DIY ECU. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted May 12, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted May 12, 2011 You could also build a Megasquirt. Plenty of first-gen turbos have been successfully run using a DIY ECU. I'm using a Megasquirt 1 stand alone on my second gen Of course, wiring is a nightmare...but everything works as it should after you figure everything out. Megasquirt is actually a pretty good system....and affordable too -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jab83 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Well!!! I'm getting a ej22. dirt cheap i dont know if its open or closed deck. Can i get a diff head and put on it. Like lets say.. The head from a 04 STI?? and put it on the 2.2?? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jab83 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Or can someone point me to something that has more info on a hybrid engine stuff. I'm wondering. I wanna Build a good engine out of a Okish one. and not have to do a wrx or sti swap cause i'm not up for the crazy wiring of that. PLus its almost impossible to find a wrecked WRX or STI To buy where i live. so thanks if anyone helps me find place's for me to research. I've tried searching on nasioc with no luck i've also tried google. and this site but cant find anything. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted August 9, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted August 9, 2011 Jaryd, I'll talk to you this evening about a hybrid build. I have all the info you need. I've been meaning to update this thread with the info, I just haven't got around to it yet. Long story short, you can use the heads, but there are some things that need to be done -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jab83 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 OK cool. thanks brokn. I'm sorry if i seemed rude about anything or didn't make since I'm bored out of my mind. WIth nothing to do so i'm of coarse researching EVERYthing i can find on our cars. but i cant find crap on hybrid builds lol and its rather annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amorgan93 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 4g63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted August 10, 2011 Author I Donated Share Posted August 10, 2011 4g63 Oh God. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor294 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 I know this post is super old, but it is a great read for me since I am about to do this swap. I just wanted to give my input on it. You can use a first generation Legacy Turbo subframe, and that will bolt right in. If you use the WRX subframe, you'll need WRX axles and control arms, or you'll need to put big washers on either side of your stock control arms to make up the gap. The WRX has wider bushings in the control arms. The best budget way to do the swap is to use a Legacy Turbo crossmember. Everything bolts into place then, and you can use takeoff parts from a WRX. Headers, turbo, downpipe and catbacks can be had for dirt cheap secondhand, and they'll all fit. First gen legacy turbo subframe is probably not the best budget. They are hard to find and bug/blobs are being parted out constantly. From what I see, guys can't give away their WRX subframes. If you really just want to turbo the car, you need the subframe, headers, uppipe, turbo, turboback exhaust, and some kind of aftermarket tuning device. There are literally dozens of options for this aspect of the build, and engine management is the ultimate hiccup in the swap. The mechanical stuff is like playing with legos. The electrical work is a bit more involved and not for the feint of heart. Wiring harness and ECU are needed. The merge is definitely the bitch part. If you want to do a full swap, your best bet is to find a rolled WRX or STi and swap EVERYTHING. This is more difficult if you have a multilink rear suspension, but not terribly so. The heartache and headache saved by having a donor vehicle is immense. If you have a pre-multilink Legacy, you can find almost any year WRX or STi and swap just about everything over. The hardest part becomes wiring the chassis harness up. EVERYTHING? Interior? or are we talking rear subframe too? 4) If you do an EJ20 swap, you are wasting your time. With very few exceptions (like a twin scroll EJ207 or some other ultra-high-revving 2.0L with a twin scroll) the EJ20 is a waste of time. The USDM EJ20 sucks, and with the A/C ON, you'll get beaten off the line by a 2.5RS. 6) If you DO plan on doing a WRX swap (EJ20 from a USDM donor), set aside funds to replace the EJ20 short block. Stock EJ20 heads on a stock STi shortblock with an 18G is a simple recipe for TONS of torque and lots of fun. 7) If you are going to do it, don't skimp. You'll regret every corner you cut when the car breaks down. I am doing EJ20 because I want to "reliability" and stay under 300WHP. Isn't the short block the weak link on the 2.0 AND 2.5? I figured the EJ20 is much cheaper and i can put a 2.5 block in and have the 2.0 heads already. Hopefully I can stay stock"ish". Pick-up and/or oil pan should be first mod as that seems to be the weak link on these. Great information though. 2nd gen community seems to have the smart guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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