JD Power 05 IQ Survey..Subi Did Badly...Thoughts?

[cohenfive]

not trying to stir up trouble here but i'm wondering what you all think of these survey results....normal gang at the top of the heap (lexus, toyota, etc) but i was surprised to see subi at 138 (problems per 100 vehicles) vs the industry average of 118...not good. i know it's only initial quality but it's not a good result. maybe this is more indicative of dealers doing good prep work than anything else...

[Guest JessterCPA]

any link to a site where we can see some detail?

 

Jesse

[Deer Killer]

My dealer mised a lot of things. Wheels not balanced properly, etc, etc. Various build quality issues. Some of which I'm still "adjusting". Most of them I haven't reported, just fixed myself.. so....

 

I would say that report is probably accurate.

[Guest JessterCPA]

The dealers are really going to have to step up now that the B9 is coming out. If Suby is trying to get this new breed of customers in the door, they cannot turn them off due to bad service. Suby enthusiasts would shrug it off because they love their boxers. The average consumer will not be so forgiving.

 

Jesse

[scans007]

Don't forget about the 90% of people and their damn smelly brakes...prob contributes a bunch too. =) There is easily 100 vehicles that are claimed to have this problem! Maybe they are the ones taken the survey,

 

On a side note a surveys have been take'n about what type of person takes a survey. People that have neg experiences tend to take the surveys, people who have great experiences normally don't....(I'm on a bunch of pannels)

It'll be fun to see what people say about the "bad rating"

[cohenfive]

any link to a site where we can see some detail?

 

Jesse

 

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/18/0auto-186012.htm

[Guest JessterCPA]

Per http://www.jdpa.com here are the cars in the same approx class as ours, alphabetically:

 

1. Buick Century

2. Buick Regal

3. Chevrolet Impala

4. Chevrolet Malibu

5. Chevrolet Monte Carlo

6. Chrysler Sebring Convertible

7. Chrysler Sebring Sedan

8. Dodge Stratus Sedan

9. Ford Taurus

10. Honda Accord Coupe

11. Honda Accord Sedan

12. Hyundai Sonata

13. Hyundai XG350

14. Mazda 6

15. Mercury Sable

16. Mitsubishi Galant

17. Nissan Altima

18. Nissan Maxima

19. Pontiac Grand Prix Coupe

20. Pontiac Grand Prix Sedan

21. Subaru Legacy

22. Subaru Outback

23. Toyota Camry

24. Toyota Camry Solara

25. Volkswagen Jetta

26. Volkswagen Passat

27. Volvo S40

28. Volvo V50

 

Go to the new vehicle advisor. I cant get the Legacy to get over 20th on the list regardless of what items I like best. Oh well.

 

Jesse

[Colonel Angus]

the first year of a redesigned vehicle usually suffers 'poor' build quality, so keep that in mind. i'm sure the legacy will fare well next year.

[cohenfive]

i guess my next question is whether these cars (05 legacy's) have been reliable for the owners so far or have there been problems? i haven't really heard much complaining on reliability around here.

[Deer Killer]

If it had reliability problems, I'd trade it in for an A4, tomorrow.

[fancub]

not trying to stir up trouble here but i'm wondering what you all think of these survey results....normal gang at the top of the heap (lexus, toyota, etc) but i was surprised to see subi at 138 (problems per 100 vehicles) vs the industry average of 118...not good. i know it's only initial quality but it's not a good result. maybe this is more indicative of dealers doing good prep work than anything else...

 

It seams the JD Power Initial Quality ratings will always reward great fit and finish, something that Subaru is still working on versus the German automakers. Consumer Reports recently and historically has rated Subaru fairly high in terms of overall quality, and I believe a long-term rating is much more important than a two to three-month rating. Is there a real statistical difference between 118 versus 138? As an engineer, I know that statistics can easily be manipulated.

[Jedi Pimp]

Initial Quality is a joke survey - it is no indicator of how a car is going to be over its lifetime quality wise, just an indicator of what the average person thinks when it is delivered. The fact is they get the survey responeses from average joes who can say anything and not from qualified automotive inspectors

[Th3Franz]

There's just little things that most people seek resolution on, like rattles, squeeks, etc. A first year new generation car usually has these little issues. The Buick Century and Buick Regal are at the top of the list. Guess how long it has been since those cars were redesigned? A long time. Also, people who buy Buicks are not very picky about quality anyway, at least regarding luxury/interior.

[robust]

i think the market for the buick's is a little too old to hear a stray rattle or two.

[cohenfive]

i think the market for the buick's is a little too old to hear a stray rattle or two.

 

that's funny....

[miles]

What Initial Quality Study (IQS) Measures

 

It measures 135 attributes across nine categories, including ride/handling/braking, engine and transmission, and a broad range of quality problems symptoms reported by vehicle owners. Among the nine problem categories surveyed, ride/handling/braking and exterior problems continue to cause the greatest challenge to manufacturers. Consumers report that the transmission causes the least number of problems.

 

The 2005 Initial Quality Study is based on responses from more than 62,000 purchasers and lessees of new 2005 model-year cars and trucks, who were surveyed after 90 days of ownership.

Here is the document, refer to page 7 for the ranking.

Remember the ranking is based on the # of problems reported per 100 cars after 90 days of ownership.

http://www.jdpa.com/pdf/2005069.pdf

 

 

Highest Ranking - Lexus

81 problems per 100 cars

.81 problems per car after 90 days (81 / 100 = .81)

 

 

Industry Average Ranking

118 problems per 100 cars

1.18 problems per car after 90 days (118 / 100 = 1.18)

 

 

Subaru’s Ranking

138 problems per 100 cars

1.38 problems per car after 90 days (138 / 100 = 1.38)

 

 

Difference between Subaru & Lexus

1.38 - .81 = 0.57

So, 1 Subaru car has ½ a problem more than 1 Lexus car within 90 days.

 

 

Difference between Subaru & Industry Average

1.38 – 1.18 = 0.2

So, 1 Subaru car has 1/5 a problem more than the Industry Average within 90 days.

 

 

The 2005 Initial Quality Study says within 90 days 1 Subaru automobile has:

• ½ a problem more than 1 Lexus automobile
  
• 1/5 a problem more than the Industry Average
  

This information proves absolutely nothing.

 

What really pisses me off are people that believe such garbage.

Learn to read in-between the lines and do the math.

[rts]

I don't know how important initial quality surveys are or if they tend to be representative of a car's future reliability, it's the long term that matters. For me, I have yet to find the first thing that needs fixed on my '05 Legacy Ltd. wagon. So far, probably the best new car I've owned regarding initial quality. There have been one or two quirky, annoying things like disabling the seatbelt chime, but those are design issues, not quality issues.

[StringFellow]

As a few others have mentioned, these surveys don't mean anything. What really matters is the longterm reliability of the vehicle.

 

Also, don't forget that the Legacy/OB doesn't get great gas mileage. Based on the information the web article stated..."...The survey measures 135 attributes, including handling, braking, engine trouble and vehicle design....", I would think poor gas mileage would be an item on the list. Also, what about the initial side air bag issue? That might have skewed the numbers as well.

 

Also, they survey'ed 62K people, and how many of these 62K were actually Subbie owners? Stupid marketing surveys. And why is it I am never surveyed!

 

Am I worried about my Subbie after reading this article, nope! Should it impact other people in regards to car purchases, no! Have I ever based a car purchase on this yearly initial quality survey, no!.

 

-S

[LegGTLT]

Here is the document, refer to page 7 for the ranking.

Remember the ranking is based on the # of problems reported per 100 cars after 90 days of ownership.

http://www.jdpa.com/pdf/2005069.pdf

 

 

Highest Ranking - Lexus

81 problems per 100 cars

.81 problems per car after 90 days (81 / 100 = .81)

 

 

Industry Average Ranking

118 problems per 100 cars

1.18 problems per car after 90 days (118 / 100 = 1.18)

 

 

Subaru’s Ranking

138 problems per 100 cars

1.38 problems per car after 90 days (138 / 100 = 1.38)

 

 

Difference between Subaru & Lexus

1.38 - .81 = 0.57

So, 1 Subaru car has ½ a problem more than 1 Lexus car within 90 days.

 

 

Difference between Subaru & Industry Average

1.38 – 1.18 = 0.2

So, 1 Subaru car has 1/5 a problem more than the Industry Average within 90 days.

 

 

The 2005 Initial Quality Study says within 90 days 1 Subaru automobile has:

• ½ a problem more than 1 Lexus automobile
  
• 1/5 a problem more than the Industry Average
  

This information proves absolutely nothing.

 

What really pisses me off are people that believe such garbage.

Learn to read in-between the lines and do the math.

 

THANK YOU MILES!!! Someone finally did the math! It really is quite funny when you think about it. A ranking of 138 is for 100 cars, but they don't break it down individually like Miles does. Why? Because who, logically that is, would worry about a half a problem more? Stats... you can make them say what ever you want them to but most of the public doesn't know that. Thanks again Miles for doing the dirty work and getting the numbers posted, that is the REAL numbers.

Still a valid question though from the original poster, so don't take offense! It's just that so many people get caught up in this without knowing what's really being said by these silly surveys.

[outahere]

Here is the document, refer to page 7 for the ranking.

Remember the ranking is based on the # of problems reported per 100 cars after 90 days of ownership.

http://www.jdpa.com/pdf/2005069.pdf

 

 

Highest Ranking - Lexus

81 problems per 100 cars

.81 problems per car after 90 days (81 / 100 = .81)

 

 

Industry Average Ranking

118 problems per 100 cars

1.18 problems per car after 90 days (118 / 100 = 1.18)

 

 

Subaru’s Ranking

138 problems per 100 cars

1.38 problems per car after 90 days (138 / 100 = 1.38)

 

 

Difference between Subaru & Lexus

1.38 - .81 = 0.57

So, 1 Subaru car has ½ a problem more than 1 Lexus car within 90 days.

 

 

Difference between Subaru & Industry Average

1.38 – 1.18 = 0.2

So, 1 Subaru car has 1/5 a problem more than the Industry Average within 90 days.

 

 

The 2005 Initial Quality Study says within 90 days 1 Subaru automobile has:

• ½ a problem more than 1 Lexus automobile
  
• 1/5 a problem more than the Industry Average
  

This information proves absolutely nothing.

 

What really pisses me off are people that believe such garbage.

Learn to read in-between the lines and do the math.

 

I think your reasoning and use of math are flawed. There is no such thing as "1/5 a problem" or ".81 problems". It is a nonsensical concept. What does the data really say? It says that 100 Subarus will experience 57 more initial "problems" than 100 Lexuses, or 70% (57/81) more initial "problems" than a Lexus.

[fever]

JD Power is not "stupid" and the tests are unbiased. Subaru has come a long way; I like what I see. They need to up the ante even more and keep up the good work on improved quality.

 

If Subaru truly has designs on passing Audi in the next three to five years I think they need to accelerate the addition of higher quality materials in their cars. And one more thing-make a door that shuts with authority and doesn't feel like a tin can with wafer thin glass. I merely speak as an outsider seriously considering adding the LGT wagon to my mix.

[miles]

I think your reasoning and use of math are flawed. There is no

such thing as "1/5 a problem" or ".81 problems". It is a nonsensical concept. What

does the data really say? It says that 100 Subarus will experience 57 more

initial "problems" than 100 Lexuses, or 70% (57/81) more initial "problems"

than a Lexus.

Here's a simple example using your method:

If the # of problems per 100 cars is:

• 1 for Lexus
  
• 3 for Subaru
  

Subaru has 2 (3-1=2) more problems per 100 cars.

 

Then 100 Subarus will experience 2 more initial "problems" than 100 Lexuses,

or 200% (2/1 x 100 = 200%) more initial "problems" than a Lexus.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Using my method and comparing 100 Subarus to 100 Lexuses:

• each Subaru has .02 extra problems (2/100) than Lexus
  
• 100 Subaru's have 2 more initial problems than Lexus (.02 x 100 = 2)
  

There are Lies, Damn Lies and then there's Statistics.

[mhsneon]

I have had my car less then 90 days, and my a/c is broken, only real problem. I am not sure if I would call the sunshade opening under acceleration a problem, well I guess it is, but doesnt affect the drivablilty. Hopefully the AC will be the only major thing that breaks, if not I probably wont keep the car very long.

[VXCL]

when i sent im my survey the only problem i reported was that the dealer had curbed my car and it had to be take back for body work and paint.

[jj808]

"It is a nonsensical concept" but it fits the nonsensical survey to a T.

 

+1 to a worthless survey.