camroncamera Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm looking forward to your writeup camron, the methodology you take behind all of the mods is impressive. Good luck with the rest of the swap...I wish I knew more about the brakes to give you a hand haha. Thanks, I should have more details and some good pics up in a day or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 haha this is bugging me out wtf is on my car then hahaha, damnn there need to be more daylight out I want to check! this is haha driving me crazy i need to find outt!! I'll be sure to get some good comparison pics of the old vs. new-style rear calipers. The NAPA pages linked earlier also show the comparison pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 BIG OLD STRIKETHROUGH on the above. The 2nd-gen SS rear brake lines will work just fine for this H6 rear brake upgrade. "H6" rear brake lines would indeed have the correct bend on the hard banjo fitting to sit in the mounting notch in the H6 caliper, but it really doesn't seem to be necessary. Good news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Swap complete!* Runs and stops awesome. Softer pedal feel than I expected for having SS lines. Everything was very well bled, in correct sequence. Check Engine Light came on during first drive. ??? Details to come. *(99.5%) P.S. I'm running out of photos on my legacygt.com account, and I have had trouble embedding images from outside photo hosts. LGT.com Support pages were not helpful for me in this case. Suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) EDIT (one more time): testing: Flickr: [ame=http://www.flickr.com/photos/camroncamera/5241052175/]IMG_4206 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!@@AMEPARAM@@http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5246/5241052175_bf2e03e85b_m.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@5241052175@@AMEPARAM@@bf2e03e85b[/ame] by camroncamera, on Flickr http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5246/5241052175_bf2e03e85b_b.jpg Picasa: Photobucket: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5627.jpg EDIT: (A bit less) Arrrg. http://legacygt.com/forums/%3Ctable%20style=%22width:auto;%22%3E%3Ctr%3E%3Ctd%3E%3Ca%20href=%22https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3J_Yc3BJVYZm8VCrHT_wOyCFOfHyB0eeXUFf92WmuZo?feat=embedwebsite%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_ll8hh28rj9M/TQkjFMH9FyI/AAAAAAAAADU/2EPdnWwjhMk/s144/IMG_4206.jpg%22%20height=%22108%22%20width=%22144%22%20/%3E%3C/a%3E%3C/td%3E%3C/tr%3E%3Ctr%3E%3Ctd%20style=%22font-family:arial,sans-serif;%20font-size:11px;%20text-align:right%22%3EFrom%20%3Ca%20href=%22https://picasaweb.google.com/camroncamera/1998SubaruLegacyGTWagon02?authkey=Gv1sRgCMbO3tzx3pfy1wE&feat=embedwebsite%22%3E1998%20Subaru%20Legacy%20GT%20Wagon%3C/a%3E%3C/td%3E%3C/tr%3E%3C/table%3E http://www.flickr.com/photos/camroncamera/5241052175/ Edited February 10, 2011 by camroncamera (A bit less) Arrrg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 must...see...install...pics. CEL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 P.S. I'm running out of photos on my legacygt.com account, and I have had trouble embedding images from outside photo hosts. LGT.com Support pages were not helpful for me in this case. Suggestions? photobucket is easiest in my opinion, just click the 'img' one and it auto copies it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) must...see...install...pics. CEL? Details and pics soon. Last 0.5% of swap completed. Left the battery disconnected last night to clear the CEL. The FLAPS had me bring the car down to scan the code, but when we plugged in the scanner, there was no code Got a temp tag for a couple days until I get it through emissions/registration. Drove the car around this evening for about 15-20 mins, checking accel, handling, and brakes, and it drove great! Stops great but pedal feel still seems soft to me. More on this later. Wife got to drive the car for the first time tonight, we went to a late dinner. I drove home, and the CEL comes back on [banghead]. Doing a steady 30, slightly uphill, light on the throttle. I'll try to get it scanned again tomorrow. :PPPPP Edited February 8, 2011 by camroncamera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 CEL = O2 Sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Code cleared and new O2 installed yesterday. Passed emissions and got WA plates and registration today. Finally road-legal WOO-HOO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 The old: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5478.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5519.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5524.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5526.jpg Asymmetrically worn front driver's side pads due to one seized piston: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5585.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5586.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5556.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5605.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) The new: EBC Slotted & Dimpled Rotors (2002 WRX front, 2000-2004 H6 rear) PBR XBG pads Remanned Calipers & Brackets all four corners (2002 WRX front, 2000-2004 H6 rear) ATE Super Blue Racing brake fluid (+10 HP) http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5504.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5507.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5508.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5509.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5510.jpg DOT-approved, polymer sleeved Stainless Steel brake lines from http://namelessperformance.com/ (2nd-gen Legacy-style Front/Rear, I'd recommend H6-style rear for the best fit to H6 calipers) http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5511.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5516.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5517.jpg Edited February 10, 2011 by camroncamera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Install: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5539.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5537.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5540.jpg Plenty of clearance on the WRX front calipers with the 16" snowflakes: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5541.jpg Make your life easier, just thread a couple bolts into the old rotor release sockets, and the old rotors will be off in no time. http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5564.jpg Remove the rear dust shield with a 5/16" drill bit through the spot welds (be sure to cover the parking brake mechanism from drill debris on the upper spot welds): http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5573.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5577.jpg When fitted through the brake line notch on the back side of the H6 caliper, the 2nd-gen SS brake lines do not have the proper bend and/or length to reach through the strut mounting tab (nor would the stock rubber lines)... http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5581.jpg ... but by bypassing the notch in the H6 caliper and feeding the lines forward (as they would on the original Legacy caliper) the lines route through the strut support tab and to the hard line fitting just fine. Is there a long-term risk of the banjo fitting working itself loose from the caliper via suspension movement? Let's hope not! http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5590.jpg Space saver spare fits over the H6 rear brake upgrade just fine (but does NOT completely clear the front WRX caliper): http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5589.jpg Wide shot, installed: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5626.jpg Close-ups, upgrades installed and broken in: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5630.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5633.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5599.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5602.jpg . Edited February 11, 2011 by camroncamera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) For clarification with regards to 2nd-Gen Legacy brake lines on H6 rear calipers: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5571_Edit_01_Text.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5580_Edit_01_Text.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5590_Edit_01_Text.jpg . EDIT 2018/10/30: The caption over the above photos suggests using "H6" style brakes lines, however this would not be possible because I long ago learned that actual Gen-3 Legacy/Outback rear brake lines are 2-piece and very short, IIRC. 2nd-gen Legacy/Impreza rear brake lines are the only realistic solution. I later solved the notch alignment issue by installing Impreza rear calipers on the H6 mounting brackets, instead of the actual Gen-3 Legacy/Outback H6 calipers, as depicted below: Edited October 30, 2018 by camroncamera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 So what was the total cost for this set up? Looks like my tax return found a home lol -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Pads front:$36 Pads rear: $32 EBC Slotted/Dimpled WRX rotors, pair front: $208 EBC Slotted/Dimpled WRX rotors, pair rear: $190 Remanned WRX semi-loaded calipers/brackets, pair front: $130 (minus core) Remanned H6 semi-loaded calipers/brackets, pair rear: $130 (minus core) Brake cleaner, 2 cans min. total: $6 WA 8.2% sales tax on above: $60 ==========Running total: ~$790.00 ATE Super Blue brake fluid (I already had some on hand, but probably $15/can) Nameless Performance DOT-approved SS Brake Lines, set of 4: $110 Final tally ~US$900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookatmyrust Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 you didnt paint your new calipers.. fool!!!.. my remanufacterd calipers turned orange in 2 weeks!!!! i had to take them off and paint them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 I definitely considered it (even bought caliper paint) but decided that I wouldn't be able to improve the finish over the enamel that came on them already. Looked to be a pretty good coating (definitely not bare metal) so I left them be. If they turn orange in two weeks, well, I can pull 'em off, paint 'em, reinstall 'em and re-bleed 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Stops great but pedal feel still seems soft to me. More on this later. :PPPPP So. This "pedal-feel" thing has been bugging me. Keep in mind this is my first Subaru, and that even though I've had it over two months, it's been constantly under the knife. I'd driven it maybe 5 miles total on the original brakes. The pedal feel sucked then, with one seized caliper piston in front. Now that the brakes are ALL-NEW (from fluid, SS lines, calipers, pads, to larger rotors) and that we are starting to dive it regularly, I'm finding that the car stops great, but that there just seems to be so much pedal effort to slow the car down. Is this normal? By comparison, my little Scirocco 16V (also with performance brakes and SS lines) pedal effort and control is very easy. No surprise there. But my wife's 2000 Corolla CE (which our Subaru is intended to replace) is also easy to work the pedal, and stops just fine in normal driving (but also keeping in mind that is is a relatively small car as well). And believe me, there is no chance that our Corolla could be mistaken for a performance car In the end, the brakes on the LGT were installed without haste, and were carefully bled free old brake fluid, and free of air bubbles. This was performed in correct order (Front Right - Rear Left - Front Left - Rear Right) as according to FSM. Engine was off. But after I started the brake swap, I quickly discovered a FAIL in my methodology: I had removed all four old calipers from their brackets, leaving them connected to the original brake lines, and sitting atop jack stands so as not to dangle from said lines. So far so good. Going in FSM bleeding order, I disconnected the old Front Right caliper and rubber brake line, and connected the new Stainless line and new-remanned caliper on the bracket, in position with new pads over the rotor, and began the bleeding process on this brake. With my Dad lending a hand this day, he pumped the brakes and I operated the bleeder screw until I saw clean, new brake fluid, free of air bubbles. I then moved to the second brake, Left Rear. In the midst of repeating the above process, I discovered my Methodology FAIL. Can you guess what it is? I had not had the foresight to block up each old caliper after they had been removed from the brackets. Thus, when the new brakes were being pumped and bled, I blew out two pistons of the two remaining old calipers which had been sitting free on jack stands (but still connected to the original rubber brake lines), leaking plenty of brake fluid on the garage floor, and introducing who-knows-how-much air back up into my brake lines with the release of each brake pedal stroke. D'oh! It was at this point I changed my methodology; I disconnected all the remaining old lines and calipers, installed all the remaining new stuff, and STARTED OVER with the brake bleeding on all four calipers, in FSM order. Trying to be careful, I bled off as much air and I could find, plus "plenty" of clear fluid afterwards. (Is "plenty" enough?) Once everything was buttoned up and the car went out for the first time to break in the bakes, the car stopped great, but I noticed the "pedal effort" that I was hoping would be helped more by the SS lines. I'm wondering if I should re-bleed everything again. Should I be worried that air might have got sucked way up into the lines from the initial bleeding attempt with the blown pistons? OR, is this brake effort totally normal - SS lines and all? Never does the brake pedal go to the floor or anything when braking, it just seems like it takes more effort that maybe it ought to, and the pedal is still a little spongy. Edited February 11, 2011 by camroncamera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I will say that between all 3 of my subaru's, and every other car I have drove my subaru brakes we probably the softest. I know toyotas are known to have the touchiest brakes and this is noticed with my moms 05 4runner. I think it is just a subaru thing, I am use to it now and when I drive anything different I tend to whip lash myself the first time lol -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drv2e30 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have an older E30 BMW that I completely redid the brake system on. The number one thing I did was get a larger master cylinder from an older 7 series. Though since you replaced your brake system completely I would replace the master cylinder. The seals in it are definitely worn out. -Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WESTcoast Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 took off my wheels after work and compared my rear calipers to my outbacks calipers....and yupp there the samee. Called up my friend who helped me install them and he told me we installed new calipers front and rear hahaha. my memory sucks!! But something interesting, its been a good 15k since i changed my rear pads and my pad cut in shape is sorta in a u shape. wierd. I checked for movement in the rotor, none looked around for anything loose, nope, put in my new pads and took it for a test drive and nothing unusual, any clue anyone?? Just sorta worried me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 I will say that between all 3 of my subaru's, and every other car I have drove my subaru brakes we probably the softest. I know toyotas are known to have the touchiest brakes and this is noticed with my moms 05 4runner. I think it is just a subaru thing, I am use to it now and when I drive anything different I tend to whip lash myself the first time lol Ya know, I drove the LGT last night to Freddy's, and I think I was making a mountain out of a molehill. The effort to push the brake pedal just isn't that big of a deal. Yes, it is more effort than the Corolla, but if Toyotas are known for touchy brakes, then the Subaru is probably fine. I may re-bleed all fours soon, just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 I have an older E30 BMW that I completely redid the brake system on. The number one thing I did was get a larger master cylinder from an older 7 series. Though since you replaced your brake system completely I would replace the master cylinder. The seals in it are definitely worn out. -Sean I'm think the dealer replaced the master cyl a few years back for the original owners, I will have to review the service records to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 took off my wheels after work and compared my rear calipers to my outbacks calipers....and yupp there the samee. Called up my friend who helped me install them and he told me we installed new calipers front and rear hahaha. my memory sucks!! Well, everything makes sense now, LOL. Thanks for looking into it. WESTcoast, would it be okay if I asked you to make a quick edit to your post in the Second Gen. Aftermarket Parts and Upgrade Guide thread to include full H6 rear calipers and brackets in your list of necessary supplies for this rear brake upgrade? Just to keep the information consistent and help avoid confusion for the next guy. I really valued the information you provided in these threads! This is your post: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3259551&postcount=188 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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