sacts Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The brakes on my 05 Outback XT don’t have very good initial bite during the first couple of stops after the car has been sitting for several hours (like overnight). It does this with the OEM pads and it’s has improved a little with Semi-Metallic pads, but overall, I wish it would brake more consistently (cold or warm). My Ford F150 and my Honda CR-V don’t exhibit this problem and both brake a lot better (kind of funny that a full size truck would have better braking than a mid-size Subaru Outback). I’ve also had a new brake booster put in and I’ve checked all the slides on the calipers which slide with no problem (and the pistons seem fine). Also, the dealership can’t seem to find anything wrong. Anybody have any ideas of what might be the problem? Maybe it’s always been like this and I just never noticed until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 search the forum. tons of information/complaints about the poor initial bite/mushiness of our brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhBe1 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hawk HPS fixed this problem on our lowly non-turbo. 06LOB2.5i MT, JDMRSB, GYTTs, HPS, LGT Mufflers & Leather Wheel, SubiMomo Knob, Inalfa Moonroof, Clutch Switch Bypass, DeDRLd, DeChimed, & Straight Headrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Yeah, that'll definitely help.... the OEM Subaru pads are horrible. Some people still complain of the initial bite though. I can definitely understand where they're coming from. They definitely don't have the same gut wrenching feel as say.... my mother's 94 BMW 525i. You touch the brakes on that car and you get thrown through the windshield. Personally, I hate that feeling. Just because a car has a hyper-sensitive brake pedal doesn't mean that it'll brake better than another car that has a softer pedal feel. Initial bite is not a good indicator of overall braking performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Pads and fluid will make a significant improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Yeah, that'll definitely help.... the OEM Subaru pads are horrible. Some people still complain of the initial bite though. I can definitely understand where they're coming from. They definitely don't have the same gut wrenching feel as say.... my mother's 94 BMW 525i. You touch the brakes on that car and you get thrown through the windshield. Personally, I hate that feeling. Just because a car has a hyper-sensitive brake pedal doesn't mean that it'll brake better than another car that has a softer pedal feel. Initial bite is not a good indicator of overall braking performance. Agreed, despite initial pedal feel being real good on say a chevy citation, their braking isn't good. As for pads, we've been using Hawk HPS as stock replacements for all our customers for close to 10 years and they have proven to improve that initial bite you are looking for. -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacts Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 I've tried a couple of differenet pads (semi-metallic, OEM, ceramic). All of them only perform well after using the brakes a couple of times. I guess I'm skrewed if I have to make any emergency stop before warming them up! I've never ever owned a car where I had to warm up the brakes just so they would perform like they should. I'm wondering if maybe the master cylinder has a slight internal leak. If I can't get this fixed I'm going to get rid of the thing. Other than the brakes, a great car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lojasmo Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Metallic lines would be the third step, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burock Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 What kind of semi-metallic pads did you put in? Hopefully they are not track pads- they require lots of heat for braking. Pads make the most improvement, but would also consider stainless lines and better fluid, ie Motul RBF600. This car also lacks a firm pedal, even from the factory, heard tons of complaints about this. The same malady also affects the Legacy GT's brakes. I solved this problem with an STI M/C and booster. Upgrading to a full Stoptech setup didn't fix the condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelwatts Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 hawk pads are a great replacement imo. some pads have to "warm up" to begin working properly. i experienced a similar problem a few years back driving a wrx at cmp. into the corners i would have to break really hard initially and as i went into the turn its like they kept biting harder and harder resulting in over-slowing for turns. its sucks. but it sounds like yours just need to be upgraded. i havent tried them but i hear the ebc yellows work great as well. i dunno tho. someone else will have to vouch for that. I'm a native of South Carolina. I am a dying breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacts Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Burock, Did you have to upgrade the calipers and lines or can you just swap out the brake booster, master cylinder, and vacuum hose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burock Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 85 % of the difference in pedal feel was made by the BB/MC/Vacuum hose swap, 10% difference with Stoptech Pads and 5% difference w/ Stoptech stainless lines. I still have stock calipers, although I had considered the Stoptech BBK before I switched out the MC/BB. Obviously I'm a fan of Stoptech vs the competition from Hawk, Goodridge, and Brembo. Only better BBK for Subaru is the Alcon but BIG bucks (ie 1/2 the cost of a used 4th gen Legacy GT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val Demar Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I'm probably one of not too many people who found that Hawk HPS pads installed some 20k miles back actually needed more warm up than stock, I had a couple of scary moments when I thought the car wouldn't stop fast enough to avoid an accident, fortunately it did. Once warmed up though they work better than stock with less fade and don't cause the infamous vibrations. Somewhat dusty. It will be time to replace them soon. Anyone had first-hand experience with the Hawk PCs (Performance Ceramic)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacts Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Currently, I have napa premium rotors front and rear and I'm using napa premium semi-metallics on the front and wagner semi-metallics on the rear. These give a better bite then the OEM's, but they don't bite very well until I've warmed them up (the OEM ones required some warm up as well). I thought Ceramics had this traight, not Semi-metallics. I just want a pad that will work well first thing in the morning. I don't want a real high performance pad since I just use the car to get around. Would different rotors help? Is there rotors made specifically for sem-metallic pads. I feel like the Hawk HPS pads will perform worse when cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 FWIW my son used http://www.axxisbrakes.com/ pads on our drag race Civic. They stopped the car fine from 150mph on the first hit of the pedal. I believe he told to use them by the guy's going 180mph+ in there cars. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted April 11, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted April 11, 2011 It's not the rotors. It might still be the pads. Did you try bedding them in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacts Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Do you know if he used the axxis XBG's or the ULT's? My brakes seem to work okay the first time at higher speeds (like highway speeds) because the brakes heat up rapidly. The problem I am experiencing is at lower speeds (like in my neighborhood) after the car has been sitting for a while and the brakes are cool. It's got to be the brake pads because they grab very well after they've warmed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacts Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Yes. I bedded them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Now that you ask, I remember the ULT on the box when I installed them. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The higher performance brake pads will yield much worse cold results. I once destroyed a set of slotted rotors (took em down to no slots on brand new rotors) when I didn't heat up my Hawk Blue race pads.... -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacts Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 That would make plenty of sense since they are designed for constant use. That's one reason why am a little bit reluctant to try Hawk HPS pads. I know they are high performance for the street only, but it seems like the cold initial bite won't be very good. I'd like to know of a decent pad for ordinary every day use that is better then the stock oem pads. How about EBC greenstuff? I don't want to use EBC red or yellow because that's for the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted April 13, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted April 13, 2011 Green stuff, at least in my experience on other cars, are very close to Hawk hps. I wouldn't expect better initial bite from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrei Wolf Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm probably one of not too many people who found that Hawk HPS pads installed some 20k miles back actually needed more warm up than stock, I had a couple of scary moments when I thought the car wouldn't stop fast enough to avoid an accident, fortunately it did. Once warmed up though they work better than stock with less fade and don't cause the infamous vibrations. Somewhat dusty. It will be time to replace them soon. Anyone had first-hand experience with the Hawk PCs (Performance Ceramic)? I've been using them (PC's) in combination with some power slot rotors on my DD. I couldn't be happier, good bite in addition to low dust (and easier to remove dust) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Hawk PC's, thanks I'll have to check them out... I wonder if AZP sells them? Mike... 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I can get them within 2 days. I may start to stock them if there is interest. I would really go with the HPS, we've been putting them on our customers stock cars as stock replacements for almost 10 years and they really love them and rarely if ever complain about dust or noise with them. I'll look into my pricing on the PCs and see what I can come up with. -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | T-1 Certified Amsoil Dealer "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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