vicdeng Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Probably some of you already heard my story at the other thread. I am just planning for the worst. It's a 1996 LGT with 166k miles, AUTO If the engine needs to be rebuild or cannot be fixed. I might think of doing a engine and tranny swap. The sad thing is i just got the HG done on that engine, it's got misfire at idle; car dies at complete stop at drive gear, won't happen on Neutral. There is a noise when the car is rev up to 3000 rpm. We are thinking about the flex plate. But not sure. Since i already put some money into the car, i might want to fix it and drive it rather than sell it. Probably it won't worth a penny for this car in that condition. It's got 166k miles. What do you guys think? That's why i need a new engine and tranny maybe. So what engine and tranny my car fits and can be interchanged. I think the 96-99 LGT's engine should work, but i could be wrong. How about tranny? Is there a reason to switch to SOHC? Give me your thoughts on this. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 year and model of the car please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicdeng Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 year and model of the car please? sorry about that, just edit it. it's a 96 lgt AUto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 If I remember correctly SOHC cams put out more power then the DOHC versions. There was a dyno of a SOHC 2.5 and a DOHC 2.5 and the SOHC had better power curves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicdeng Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 If I remember correctly SOHC cams put out more power then the DOHC versions. There was a dyno of a SOHC 2.5 and a DOHC 2.5 and the SOHC had better power curves. The reason i wanna switch to SOHC is for a quiet engine and as well as easy to take care. i am not looking for any performance gain. All i want is a complete car that runs well and reliable, so far, it's giving me a headache. I plan to use it to share some mileages for my 10 WRX to go to work. Since i have to drive alot between work. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The reason i wanna switch to SOHC is for a quiet engine and as well as easy to take care. i am not looking for any performance gain. All i want is a complete car that runs well and reliable, so far, it's giving me a headache. I plan to use it to share some mileages for my 10 WRX to go to work. Since i have to drive alot between work. Thanks then you want to swap in an ej22. there are lots of info on the swap. you want one from a 95 auto trans car lego or impreza. it is an easy swap and you will be glad you did it. 2nd choice - 96 je22 auto trans. 3rd choice - 97 - 98 auto trans. the 2nd and 3rd choices have a few oddities you need to learn about to make the swap easy and successful but not a big deal. i would look for a wrecked car on craigs list in your area or but one from link below: http://www.car-part.com sort your search by distance, shipping is expensive. i've done two, a GT and an outback and i like both. it makes for a very reliable car with an engine that will go 300k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicdeng Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 then you want to swap in an ej22. there are lots of info on the swap. you want one from a 95 auto trans car lego or impreza. it is an easy swap and you will be glad you did it. 2nd choice - 96 je22 auto trans. 3rd choice - 97 - 98 auto trans. the 2nd and 3rd choices have a few oddities you need to learn about to make the swap easy and successful but not a big deal. i would look for a wrecked car on craigs list in your area or but one from link below: www.car-part.com sort your search by distance, shipping is expensive. i've done two, a GT and an outback and i like both. it makes for a very reliable car with an engine that will go 300k miles. I thought about the EJ22 from a 95 as well. Are you just suggesting the engine or both engine and tranny? Also, if from a 96 2.5LGT to a 95 EJ22, is everything just plug right in? I already know that website, pretty good website, i used it alot...thanks Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 yes, the 95 is the easiest plug and play engine for a swap. you keep the flex plate that was on your 2.5 and put it on the 2.2 and you install it in your car. no muss no fuss. the 96 - 98s will work but the exhaust ports on the heads changed and you will need the exhaust y-pipe from the engine donor car. the ej22 MUST come from a 95 - 98 auto trans car so it will have the needed EGR valve. the 95 - 96 ej22 are non-interference engines, which prefer. but as long as you change the timing belts as specified in the manual, the 97-98s work fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 You need to make sure the motor you are swapping in is a OBDII motor. Otherwise you will never pass emissions -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicdeng Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 how can i make sure is a OBDII motor? i assume the 95 EJ22 engine is a OBDII, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 yes, legacys, in the US, went obd2 in 95 a year before required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by vicdeng What else do i need for the engine swap? the post said about the intake manifold as well? is it a must, and is there any other stuffs needed to get the job done. Just the engine? Or what other components might be a good time to do while the engine is out. for example, timing belt. plugs and wire, sth like that. Thanks it depends on what engine you use. if you use a 95 legacy auto trans car engine it will have everything you need. use your existing flex plate that matches your trans, use your existing AC bracket - the 95 bracket is slightly different? use your existing power steering lines (unless you have the lines from the 2.2Lcar.) DO NOT disconnect the lines from the AC compressor during removal, remove the conpressor from the bracket and ''flop'' it out of the way during the removal and install. (flop it back where it belongs when you are not actually pulling the engine. no reason to over stress the lines any more than you have to.) if you do not yet have a haynes manual please get one. they are not perfect but they will answer many questions faster than going online. and getting grease on it in your garage is ok, the computer, not so much. if you use another engine, not a 95 auto, you will need different things. 96 - 98 will require the exhaust y-pipe. a manual trans will require the auto trans intake and modifications to the driver side head in order to get the EGR to work. you do not want to go through this. link to 1997 FSM:. . http://www.main.experiencetherave.co...97_Legacy_FSM/ basically you want to replace anything that is leaking, which includes: cam seals - 4 ea. front crank seal - 1 ea. oil pump o-ring - 1 ea. (check / tighten the bolts on the backing plate on the back side of the pump.) oil separator plate - 1 ea. w/ 5 screws. (on the rear of the engine) valve cover gaskets - 2 ea. exhaust gaskets - 2 ea. spark plugs - 4 ea. plug wires - 1 set (4 ea.) all timing components timing belt - 1 ea. idlers, smooth - 2 ea. idler, toothed - 1 ea. tensioner - 1 ea. (either just the idler assembly or the whole thing depending on whether yours is the old style, 2 piece, or the new style, one piece.) i would get the stuff in red from a SUBARU dealer online. i would get the timing belt kit from ''theimportexperts'' on ebay, search ''subaru timing kit''. you will also need RTV ultra gray or anaerobic sealant to reseal the oil pump and the oil separator plate on the rear. motor oil - 4.5 qts ? coolant - 6.5 qts. ? AT fluid for the power steering - 1 qt ? (and i would do a drain and fill on the trans if it is an auto, if the fluid is dark and dirty, i would do a drain and fill 3 times with driving around the block in between, about 4 qts.for each) DO NOT replace the rear main seal unless it is really leaking, they usually don't leak until someone has replaced it. usually it is not leaking, the oil sep plate is, DO NOT mess with it if you do not have to. and if you do not do the oil pump and rear oil sep plate you will regret both. online parts : www.subarugenuineparts.com www.subarupartsforyou.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowlego Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 How many labor hours (at a shop familiar with Subaru) do you think that would take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 oil pump o-ring - 1 ea. (check / tighten the bolts on the backing plate on the back side of the pump.) I'm glad I did this. My oil pump looked like this when I removed it (enlarged to show texture): http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=796&pictureid=4391 In my case I purchased a new oil pump outright as preventive maintenance before I even knew I had an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williaty Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 OK, I'm the mechanic doing Vic's swap for him. He did go with the 2.2L engine. I've swapped over the parts described earlier in this thread and gotten the whole thing installed in the car. It cranks strongly but won't start or even try to catch. 1) Compression is strong on all cylinders2) Spark tester verifies that spark is getting to the plugs3) Noid light verifies that the fuel injectors are being told to fire4) Fuel leak (previous mechanic didn't tighten a clamp) verifies fuel pressure That's all the key ingredients for an Otto Cycle engine yet there's not even a hint of ignition. Given that this is such an old swap, I don't have the manuals for this stuff nor do I have anything that'll talk to an ECU this old. Given that it's got fuel, spark, and compression, it has to be happening at the wrong time. The physical timing is correct, which means it's got to be an issue with the times the fuel and spark are being commanded. Is there any issue with the relative firing orders, timing, etc? Vic didn't supply a 2.2L ECU, is that actually required to make it run? Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Yes I think you will need the 2.2 ECU to make it run. The 2.5 ECU might be dumping way to much fuel into the cylinders. What year is the ej22 out of? Check: Coolant temp sensor, this will not let the car start if it isnt working properly cranks/cam position sensors -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williaty Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I have no way to check the coolant temp sensor, crank position sensor, or cam position sensor since the ECU is too old for me to plug in and ask what it's seeing from those sensors The 2.2L is from a 95. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 you DO NOT need the 2.2L ECU to make it run. the ECU in the 96 GT will run it just fine. i'v done a 97GT and a 98 outback with no problems and no ECU change. do you know if the 2.2L was running before the install? did you remove the intake manifold or the injector wiring on the 2.2L engine before you installed it? mixing up the injector wiring front to rear will give it fuel but at the wrong time. did you replace the timing belt on the engine before you installed it? did you use the correct timing marks? this would seem to be a dumb question since you have good compression. more often than not it is a timing problem. but again, since the compression is good this is doubtful. what is the compression? have you tried starting it using starting fluid / ether? this will eliminate fuel as the issue? but if it fires you have narrowed it down. how did you confirm the spark? did you replace the wires and plugs? re-check the 3 connectors on the back of the engine at the trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Since all else seems to check out, the t belt is probably off spec. If the spacing is off by more than one tooth, it will give you the symptoms described. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 just in case you need it: http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/johnceggleston/timingbeltdiagram.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williaty Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 do you know if the 2.2L was running before the install? No. Came from a junkyard that has turned out to be really shady. did you remove the intake manifold or the injector wiring on the 2.2L engine before you installed it? mixing up the injector wiring front to rear will give it fuel but at the wrong time. Removed the intake on both engines to transfer the 2.5's wiring harness onto the 2.2. The idea of switching the injector wires front to rear is a very good one. Is there a way to determine which goes where? did you replace the timing belt on the engine before you installed it? did you use the correct timing marks? this would seem to be a dumb question since you have good compression. more often than not it is a timing problem. but again, since the compression is good this is doubtful. what is the compression? 180psi +/- 10psi on all cylinders with the plugs in the other cylinders at the time (yes, I know that's the wrong way to do it but I was more interested in if there was compression at all rather than exactly what it was). Junkyard replaced timing belt but I did visually verify the physical timing. how did you confirm the spark? did you replace the wires and plugs? Coil pack was transferred from the old engine. It's unmarked, but I placed in on the new engine in the same orientation as it was on the old engine. Plugs and wires are brand new. Spark was confirmed using a spark checker that plugs into the end of the spark plug wires. Fuel injector function was confirmed using a noid light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicdeng Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Q: do you know if the 2.2L was running before the install? A: the engine is from a junk yard, we don't know if it was running before the install. It has been sitting there for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williaty Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 did you remove the intake manifold or the injector wiring on the 2.2L engine before you installed it? mixing up the injector wiring front to rear will give it fuel but at the wrong time. OK, I just went out and swapped the front and rear injector wiring on one side of the engine. It still won't start and the symptoms are exactly the same. So.... 1) I do need a way to 100% verify that I have the correct plug on the correct injector 2) The lack of any change at all suggests to me that it's a spark timing issue. Are the crank sprockets for the 2.5L and the 2.2L identical? If they aren't, that would explain this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 the crank sprockets are the same. swapping the wiring harness was not necessary. the 2.2L harness would work just fine. so there is a possibility that the harness swap created a problem. i don't know if the 2.5L harness won't work, i just don't know. it seems like it should, the engine does and the ecu does, but i don't know. i have never heard it discussed. on the other hand, if a connection was missed.... but you have spark and at least some fuel. try the starting fluid. and re-assure me about the timing marks you / they used on the crank and cam sprockets. EDIT:P did you swap any thing else? cam sprocket maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williaty Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 The junkyard smashed all the connectors on the 2.2L harness. It had to be swapped for the 2.5L harness. Right now, I'm really wondering how to know 100% for sure that the correct plug is on the correct injector. I'll check physical timing again tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.