Mr. Sinister Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 This is why you should follow their recommendation, and not over inflate. If you overinflate, your tires will wear much quicker and unevenly than at the correct pressure, therefore eliminating any savings of fuel. Are you saying you're more of a soccer mom type then? I know how to inspect my tires to see if they're over/under inflated. At stock pressure, the scrub marks told me that the tire was underinflated. I run +4 all the way around now and the wear is dead even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iv_05gt Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 we use BG fluid flushing machines at my dealership, its really a grey area if you ask me. some guys swear by them, me personally I think as long as you follow the manufacturer's specifications and maintenance intervals, you dont need any fancy, or more expensive fluids. People don't realize that the manufacturer wants their vehicles to perform well, and be reliable, and they spend a whole butt load of money in research and development for this to occur. If they say fluid A belongs in it, well I tend to agree with them. Its just like tire pressures. People say "Yea I added ten psi to my tires to get better fuel mileage!" I say, "You're an idiot. Manufacturers spend millions a year trying to meet the strict MPG requirements and CAFE regulations. You really think the people that can design an entire vehicle and achieve a certain MPG rating didn't think of that? You really think you outsmarted them by adding five to ten psi?" They set specifications for many reasons. Safety, reliability, and economics are among the top reasons. If its in the owner's manual, I listen. End rant lol. +1 on everything he said.. i mean everything. Only BG flush we do here ad VW (bleh) is the brakes. And the fluid is like 1/2 the price for the same amount of VW fluid. Especially when their "DSG" fluid is like $68 a litre But if thats what your shop uses i wouldn't worry to much. BG also spends millions of dollars on research to make fluids that will work for every make/model. If you ask me 6 in one, half dozen in the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-The Boss- Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 ...And the fluid is like 1/2 the price for the same amount of VW fluid.... If you ask me 6 in one, half dozen in the other. I said this 10 posts ago and they told me I wasnt adding value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You started busting his balls only after he made it sound like he was disagreeing with your assessment. So here's a yea to counter your nea. There is nothing magical about Idemitsu ATF-HP aside from making SOA and JATCO a buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 for many reasons. Safety, reliability, and economics are among the top reasons. If its in the owner's manual, I listen. End rant lol. They did not set specifications, they set recommendations. This means they did not test all the aftermarket fluids. If you ask for specifications, they will decline to release those. Specifications mean, in this case, what the ATF formulation is. There is no incentive for manufacturers to test and certify aftermarket fluids. "Manufacturer's recommendations" also include certain manufacturers claiming transmission fluids to be lifetime. When asked to define lifetime, they decline to do so. As such, lifetime is defined as lifetime of the unit, which ends at the warranty period. I have delt first-hand with this. I would be wary to what extent you trust the manufacturer. TECHNICALLY a Subaru is meant to last 60K or 5 years, whichever comes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Did I mention I am running an aftermarket "non-approved" synthetic ATF that is so far performing above and beyond the OEM ATF at a similar price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forayzor Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Did I mention I am running an aftermarket "non-approved" synthetic ATF that is so far performing above and beyond the OEM ATF at a similar price? In what way is it "outperforming" the OEM atf? And you are incorrect, they do set specifications. I work at a Ford dealer for example, they do not "recommend" 75w140 rear axle lubricant with friction modifier additive, the "specify" that you must use it. And your view on lifetime is quite odd, you are saying that by lifetime a manufacturer means only the warranty period? A CVT transaxle has no maintenance interval, it is filled for life. You are claiming that after the powertrain warranty expires, in this case 5 years 60,000 miles, the life of this unit is expired and you must change the fluid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forayzor Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Are you saying you're more of a soccer mom type then? I know how to inspect my tires to see if they're over/under inflated. At stock pressure, the scrub marks told me that the tire was underinflated. I run +4 all the way around now and the wear is dead even. Wow +4psi?! That just spells enthusiast! I didn't realize that only soccer mom's ran their tires at spec. Thats funny, because I run all my vehicles, including my lgt right at man. specs. I have dead even tire wear all the way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Wow +4psi?! That just spells enthusiast! I didn't realize that only soccer mom's ran their tires at spec. Thats funny, because I run all my vehicles, including my lgt right at man. specs. I have dead even tire wear all the way around. And you skipped right over the part where I said I inspected my tires. Go right ahead and keep inflating your tires to OEM recommendations regardless of which tire or wheels you have on your car. I forgot, you're a soccer mom type. You're going to keep running bunny killing RE92s because they're OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Subscribed. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forayzor Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 And you skipped right over the part where I said I inspected my tires. Go right ahead and keep inflating your tires to OEM recommendations regardless of which tire or wheels you have on your car. I forgot, you're a soccer mom type. You're going to keep running bunny killing RE92s because they're OEM. No, I didn't skip over that part. That's why I said my tires are wearing evenly. And you're wrong yet again, RE92s don't kill bunnys. I actually don't run the stock tires either, but enough about me. I like soccer moms, just am not one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchin Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Fishbone' I'm assuming you're running Amsoil in your AT. I like soccer moms as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farberio Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 They set specifications for many reasons. Safety, reliability, and economics are among the top reasons. If its in the owner's manual, I listen. End rant lol. This is why you should follow their recommendation, and not over inflate. If you overinflate, your tires will wear much quicker and unevenly than at the correct pressure, therefore eliminating any savings of fuel. I know someone who has never worked in the automotive industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontGT Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The best thing about using BG fluids is that they offer an aftermarket warranty if you get the service done before a set mileage (IIRC, 75,000 miles). Depending on what flush/service you have done, the company will provide a warranty - independently of whichever shop you have the service done at - that covers parts, labor, etc. up to a certain amount. They use a 2-tier system for this; what they call "plan 1" is for those who have the service done before 35k or 36k miles (can't recall) and "plan 2" is for anything before 75k miles. Transmission warranty is either $2k/$1k or $4k/$2k respectably for "plan 1" or "plan 2". Power steering and coolant flushes are the same deal. I'm not familiar with their brake fluid flushes. I believe their "fuel induction cleaning" service is $2k/$1k. To remain protected you need to have the service done every 15k miles etc. depending on which service you pay for. In my humble opinion, BG is simply providing more motivation for consumers to regularly service their vehicles. They provide a carrot for regular maintenance. As others have attested, there are situations where a fluid flush can "cure" a problem. That being said, it is anyone's guess as to whether the flush worked because of the specific chemicals used or simply because the preventative maintenance service had been neglected for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forayzor Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 i havent since, 4:30pm today. Ford Master technician, nice try pal! I love how people in this forum are so quick to flame others, when they have no knowledge of a members experience. I promise you I can make you look sick when it comes to anything involving the automotive industry. schmuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ineedone Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I usually add about 10% of Sidney Crosby's fluids to my oils. It lubricates everything very well. Caps fan? I knew there were good people on here! To the OP, I've used the fuel system cleaner, noticed nothing good or bad. I have heard (second hand) the different flush machines work well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boymk123 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 used it and liked it (flush service from dealer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farberio Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 i havent since, 4:30pm today. Ford Master technician, nice try pal! I love how people in this forum are so quick to flame others, when they have no knowledge of a members experience. I promise you I can make you look sick when it comes to anything involving the automotive industry. schmuck. Oh, sorry let me rephrase that. I know someone who has never worked as an automotive engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forayzor Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Oh, sorry let me rephrase that. I know someone who has never worked as an automotive engineer. So at what pressure should I start setting my tires at, oh wise one? People just keep interjecting useless information into this thread, its quite annoying. Go away trolls. And you laugh at me for following the manuals, it's automotive engineers that write these manuals and set these specs you moron! What exactly do you "design and engineer"? so in the future i know not to get near it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farberio Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 First, automotive engineers don't write the manuals. There is a whole other group dedicated to writing manuals. In a perfect world the manuals will reflect the car accurately, however if you think that they do then you are delusional. Second, while you are correct that there are multiple factors in why the tires PSI setting is what its at you fail at understanding what that means. The factors in regards to tires, besides the number one cost, are economy, tire load, and comfort. However, there is no magic PSI that maximizes all three. Its all one big compromise, which means that its possible to gain in one area by sacrificing something else. So you ask what PSI you should set your tires at? Well the engineering answer is 'well that depends.' I will make the following assumptions: you want your tires inflated enough so that they support the car and that you don't want the tires inflated so much that you have uneven wear. Now that gives you a range of acceptable and safe PSI values. Now you need to factor in what you want out of the car, MPGs are maximized with higher PSI and comfort and grip is maximized with lower MPGs. Third, you called me out on this I love how people in this forum are so quick to flame others, when they have no knowledge of a members experience. and then write this What exactly do you "design and engineer"? so in the future i know not to get near it? Wow, nice to see the pot calling the kettle black. And btw, do you know your Subaru recommended shifting speeds? If you don't use them exactly you might blow up your transmission! [/threadjack] If you want to continue this you can PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iv_05gt Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I said this 10 posts ago and they told me I wasnt adding value. I just wanted to join in on the fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 And your view on lifetime is quite odd, you are saying that by lifetime a manufacturer means only the warranty period? A CVT transaxle has no maintenance interval, it is filled for life. You are claiming that after the powertrain warranty expires, in this case 5 years 60,000 miles, the life of this unit is expired and you must change the fluid? Logic 101, friend. Once the warranty is out and the transmission shits the bed, you pay out of pocket. In my case, the transmission would have cost 8 grand. Knowing for a fact it was using dino ATF, you really think I was going to gamble it over 80 bucks? Really? Can you tell me in what world replacing old, spent, crappy fluid is a bad idea? I won't elaborate further, I have a nagging suspicion it will be a wasted efford. And you are wrong, CVTs do have a maintenance interval, it depends on the manufacturer. Nissan says 100K miles IIRC, if not 60K. Lifetime means lifetime of the product. If it fails outside the warranty, the dealer will tell you that was the life of the product. There is no such thing as lifetime fluid, not how a customer perceives it, which in their mind means "for as long as I own this car". Well, I guess since most people only keep a car for 4 years or so, it is lifetime. And then you go buy the car. Until you can get me a manufacturer, ANY manufacturer, define what "lifetime" is, to a customer it should mean "this part will not fail to the extent of the warranty". After that, they are on their own and preventive maintenance is never a bad idea. Since you are a master technician, please provide me with an example of a factory fill fluid which is deemed lifetime, what lifetime means and why the fluid should not be serviced. In other words, brand, formulation, and how it was determined to perform to the lifetime definition. Are you, or your dealer, willing to provide this in writing, signed, to any of your customers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 In what way is it "outperforming" the OEM atf? Superior shifting (quicker, firmer, more consistent). Superior stability in hot and cold, meaning the shifting behavior stayed consistent. On OEM, when the ATF got hot hot when flogging it in 95+ humid days, it would shift harsh and bang gears. Granted I have yet to take it to that extreme with this new stuff but when flogged, it could not care less. In cold, it would slip the clutchpacks and shift funny until it got warmer. It sheds heat faster. It has cured the typical rear-end "squat" when putting it in gear when cold (not that this was a problem, but it is smoother). Did I mention IPT, Import Performance Trans, who mods and rebuilds our units uses nothing but Amsoil and we have yet to hear about a failed tranny? In fact, aftermarket suppliers have their feet to the hot coals because if they say "our ATF is certified" and your tranny bites it, it's on them (and I am well aware it is sometimes difficult to prove failures). Did you know Mobil carries 3309 dino ATF which they sell off-the-shelf, which incidentally is the JWS-3309 spec used in some Aisin-Warner units on some imports, aka Toyota Type-IV ATF, aka I forget what name used for Volvo units, essentially the same fluid? The price just "happens" to vary from $4 to $40 a quart, depending on which dealer you go to How quaint. Then even Mazda sent out a memo saying that even though they never mentioned anywhere in their literature, when in-house ATF is not available, JWS-3309 is acceptable and perfectly fine. But if I were to listen to you, unless it says MAZDA on that quart, better stay away! And did you know this same fluid is specced for just about a gazillion goddamned different change intervals amongs car manufacturers? Did you know the Germans for example started deeming fluids "lifetime" because mags such as JD Power and Consumer Reports started dinging them for higher maintenance costs? Then their stuff started shitting the bed (see the exemplary reliability track record of the autos in earlier Beetles for example) and are now going back and recommending sane change intervals? Come to find out, after a lot of research, the automatic tranny in the wife's car uses a fluid which is marginally better than Dex IV, yet deemed lifetime? I'm talking about the JWS-3309, Type IV stuff. So naturally what I did was picked up the Mobil 1 synthetic stuff, which they certify is JWS-3309 compatible (they should know their stuff, since they are the manufacturer of ALL the fluid ALL the different auto manufacturers use for their AW trannies), changed it for a fraction of the cost at the dealer and I can now rest easy for another 50K miles or so. So you see, in the end, there is nothing magical about factory fluids and manufacturer recommendations. Again, they can only recommend the fluid they have tested in house and know that works. Because if they come out and say "sure, use whatever you want", it's their ass on the line for warranty claims. Would I gamble with a, say, GT-R tranny, on aftermarket fluid, just to save a buck on a 40 grand tranny? Hell no. But we're not exactly talking about fancy stuff here. If Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, BG, Amsoil and a bunch others, specifically say their ATF meets your manufacturer's spec, I got no issue using it. Just go look and see how many aftermarket fluids meet Subaru's ATF-HP spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwm5094 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Just run the Subaru 5EAT oil for the tranny from fredbeansparts.com, cant go wrong. For gear oil run the redline 75w90 but do not buy the NS. Fits all specs, everything will operate fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Why would you use aftermarket differential fluid? Redline is not listed on Subaru's literature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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