MikeofLA Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Hey guys, My '06 LGT is at Yimi Sport. After finding a 30% leak in the #2 cylinder the guys at Yimi assumed that I had a ring land failure so they tore down my engine, they then told me that the cylinders were out of round and sent it to the machine shop to get it honed. The machine shop got the motor and told Yimi that my pistons are actually 1/2000th of an inch smaller then the cylinders and that the tolerance should be 3/1000th and that getting my pistons back in is near impossible. This seem very strange and nie impossible and if this were the case we'd be looking at a seize and not a leak, right? Yimi says that he sees no other damage to the motor, but promised to go over it again. Now, by no means is this a jab at Yimi Sport. They have been very professional, and I would recommend them to anyone. I am just trying to find out WTF!? This seems very strange. any input suggestions or comments appreciated! -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 As you already know, this is not headed in the right direction. Either the shop or the machine shop, or both should no be working on your car. It is also possible that they have not communicated the issues to you properly. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Im confused, your installing the original pistons or new ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeofLA Posted September 30, 2010 Author Share Posted September 30, 2010 These are the same pistons that have been in the car for over 70K miles. I was hoping to install forged, but at this point, since there is nothing "Physically broken" the warranty company isn't going to cover the tear down or the rebuild or anything for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeofLA Posted September 30, 2010 Author Share Posted September 30, 2010 As you already know, this is not headed in the right direction. Either the shop or the machine shop, or both should no be working on your car. It is also possible that they have not communicated the issues to you properly. Can you elaborate? I have read only good things on this forum about Yimi Sport and have had them do a few things on my car. I spoke to a Master Subaru tech and he pretty much told me that there is no way I had a leak without a light and that if the cylinders were really what they claim to be, that I would most likely be seized long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 That makes no sense that the original pistons will not fit back into the cylinders. I assume they know there are "a" and "b" markings on the pistons and the marking should correspond with the markings on the block. You probably have leakdown thru the valves. The shop should have determined the source of leakdown before they tore it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 To much here to type everything, but here is a summary: 1. Without knowing the original symptoms or how they tested #2 it is hard to know why they came to the conclusion that they did (although it is a pretty standard answer), someone should have, and probaly did, take a look at the valves before they declared the sylinders to be out of round, necessitating a rebuild. 2. If the cylinders were "out of round" someone should have taken measurements to document how far off they were and if they wre indeed out of spec - nothing is perfectly round, the question is how far off were they. Without those, which the shop should hvae done before they sent the block off to the machine shop and the machine shop should have done before they did any work - if you do that sort of work taking those measurements is quick and easy. 3. If the machine "honed" the cylinders, then they should now be round (within tolerance unless they were so far off that more material had to be removed then is acceptable) and the machine shop should resize the rings if necessary or order oversized pistons if necessary and .001" out is not a lot. 4. The Master Subaru Tech is making a lot of sense. I would ask a lot more questions before you spend any more money. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote=rao; 4. The Master Subaru Tech is making a lot of sense. I would ask a lot more questions before you spend any more money. ^^^^^ This. You probably needed a valve job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeofLA Posted September 30, 2010 Author Share Posted September 30, 2010 To much here to type everything, but here is a summary: 1. Without knowing the original symptoms or how they tested #2 it is hard to know why they came to the conclusion that they did (although it is a pretty standard answer), someone should have, and probaly did, take a look at the valves before they declared the sylinders to be out of round, necessitating a rebuild. 2. If the cylinders were "out of round" someone should have taken measurements to document how far off they were and if they wre indeed out of spec - nothing is perfectly round, the question is how far off were they. Without those, which the shop should hvae done before they sent the block off to the machine shop and the machine shop should have done before they did any work - if you do that sort of work taking those measurements is quick and easy. 3. If the machine "honed" the cylinders, then they should now be round (within tolerance unless they were so far off that more material had to be removed then is acceptable) and the machine shop should resize the rings if necessary or order oversized pistons if necessary and .001" out is not a lot. 4. The Master Subaru Tech is making a lot of sense. I would ask a lot more questions before you spend any more money. Well, Luckily I haven't spent a dime yet, and I never personally authorized the tear down. The warranty company did. I also didn't see them actually DO the leak down test, I am just going off of what Paul at Yimi told me. From what he says, technically the pistons will fit back in, but not without honing out the cylinders first. The pistons are allowing only .05/1000th clearance. Regardless of the piston size, I want to know why there was a leak and if the warranty company asked them to tear it down without my prior approval then they should be responsible for any cost associated with that, right? Oh, and the machine shop hasn't done anything yet. I haven't given them the ok to do Anything yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 It sounds like your warranty company is calling the shots at this point, so the machine shop will probable go with their ok since they will be footing the bill. But after all is said and done I would take the car to someone else and have a thorough inspection of the motor done, compression, leak-down, everything so that you don't end up in this situation again without a warranty and footing the bill yourself with perhaps more damage if something is indeed wrong now that they aren't finding. Even good shops make mistakes, if they have a good rep they most likely have earned it so don't be afraid to ask enough questions so that you are satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Broken ring land and they are reusing the same pistons ? I most be out in left field here. Is a broken ring the same thing as a broken ring land ? In my litle mind I alway's thought that the ring land were the pieces of the piston between the rings ? Oh, and I'm sure the OP means the piston to wall clearence is .005 not .050. Can the OP ask the Warrenty company if he can have the machine shop install new pistons of his choice ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryN Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Oh geez, yeah. If the engine is torn apart, best to change the pistons or even the conrod now. Ask if you can go forged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 You can get brand new pistons from crawford performance, a set of four for a hundred bucks. Comes with pins but no rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeofLA Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 It sounds like your warranty company is calling the shots at this point, so the machine shop will probable go with their ok since they will be footing the bill. But after all is said and done I would take the car to someone else and have a thorough inspection of the motor done, compression, leak-down, everything so that you don't end up in this situation again without a warranty and footing the bill yourself with perhaps more damage if something is indeed wrong now that they aren't finding. Even good shops make mistakes, if they have a good rep they most likely have earned it so don't be afraid to ask enough questions so that you are satisfied. The problem is "nothings broken" so the Warranty company isn't covering ANYTHING! I am sitting here with my motor apart and the warranty company saying that they won't even pay for the tear down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 The law is they need written authorization to tear anything down, even to open the hood. If you didn't sign a repair order authorizing this your not responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanB Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 The problem is "nothings broken" so the Warranty company isn't covering ANYTHING! I am sitting here with my motor apart and the warranty company saying that they won't even pay for the tear down. Hopefully the shop that performed the teardown can supply you with a copy of the autho to perform that work from the warranty company. That autho is the warranty company accepting responsibility for the costs of the work, and the costs to put it back together, as part of their investigation into the claim. If the shop didn't receive autho, then the onus is on them to get it put back together, as they acted without autho. This may involve small claims court, but if you didn't autho the teardown, then you aren't on the hook for it. I'd let whoever you are dealing with know that you need a rental in the meantime as well. Keep track of all your expenses related to this matter, and use email going forward so you have copies of all conversations that take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Sucks to hear that. Hopefully things will work them selves out. Something doesn't sound right with the orginal post. Someone is not telling you the exact story. If you had that tight of piston to wall clearance, there should be scuffing on the skirts. If the piston came out, they have to fit back in, I think it's something to do with physics. Good Luck 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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