Subaru annouces new boxer engine series

[dudeondacouch]

Direct injection has its problems. Namely excessive deposits on the intake valves.

 

so use a high-detergent fuel.

[bosco]

Direct injection has its problems. Namely excessive deposits on the intake valves.

 

Then why are all the manufacturers are going to it?

[outahere]

so use a high-detergent fuel.

 

Direct injection does not spray fuel on intake valves (as does port injection), therefore detergent will have no effect.

[outahere]

Then why are all the manufacturers are going to it?

 

Because they can charge you $300 at 30,000 miles for a valve cleaning procedure;). Some manufacturers have solved the problem, others have not.

Some keep auxiliary port injectors, in addition to the direct injectors, just to keep the intake valves clean.

[Sydtron]

Then why are all the manufacturers are going to it?

 

More efficient and more power. I've heard GM's implementation leaves deposits more similar to regular fuel injection since it injects from a more controlled location in the cylinder but that's probably just a mechanic's tale.

[outahere]

Here are some representative photos of the valve deposit issue with DI:

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1494862&page=1

[Drift Motion]

i know alot of ppl are talking about bringing the turbo diesel over to US...

[franklin]

First new engine redesign in 21 years and zero horsepower increase and 4 foot pounds of torque. Impressive.

I've heard they are developing a radical new 3 speed automatic and a class leading 4 speed manual to go with it.

[katalyst]

^

 

i think this engine is a foundation for which they will be able to continue to develop and implement future additions, eg: direct injection.

 

it's likely a majority of their market share gives little thought or input towards engine technology but focus on other aspects of subarus to make their purchase. you think all those granola loving outback owners care about DI ?? subaru seems to continue to experience market growth without it.

 

as much as we don't like to acknowledge it, as motoring enthusiasts, we represent a small minority in subaru's market segment.

[sti2k5]

No kidding, what a let down i'll be looking at the new Regal now for sure.

 

wow...to look at a buick from a Subaru means you really shouldn't be a Subaru fan anyway, you should just be a "driver"

 

DI has no place in my garage...I would much rather have a vehicle that I can work on...not something that you have to hook a computer up to every time it hiccups.

[ssbtech]

news could have been worse, could have been a hybrid...

 

I'm surprised that Subaru even bothers to use a boxer engine now since the legacy went all camry-like.

[bosco]

wow...to look at a buick from a Subaru means you really shouldn't be a Subaru fan anyway, you should just be a "driver"

 

DI has no place in my garage...I would much rather have a vehicle that I can work on...not something that you have to hook a computer up to every time it hiccups.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

 

Thanks for the advice on my next car selection i can tell by your response you are very knowledgeable in the automotive field.

[PhilT]

wow...to look at a buick from a Subaru means you really shouldn't be a Subaru fan anyway, you should just be a "driver"

 

DI has no place in my garage...I would much rather have a vehicle that I can work on...not something that you have to hook a computer up to every time it hiccups.

 

Then don't get anything more modern than your '97 Legacy

[LittleBlueGT]

This is the way I look at it:

 

-lighter internals with less friction - good

-smaller bore and longer stroke - very very very good

 

 

• smaller bore means their pistons should be stronger, and a lot less susceptible to detonation. might even mean they could fit forged pistons in (can't with our bore due to emissions AFAIK)
  
• I would hope would still keep the same red-line despite the longer stroke due to lighter internals
  

 

 

-other slight redesigns also sound slightly beneficial

 

I would imagine things will continue to evolve, and we will see DI eventually.

[JoeFromPA]

Hmmm....

 

Honda, the finest small engine maker in the world, not yet embracing DI on their economy-rooted engines. Toyota, not yet embracing in their economy-rooted engines.

 

Nissan, not yet embracing.

 

I could go on and on. With the exception of volkswagon, who has done it on the GTI.

 

DI is a good technology advance, but much like so many technologies before it, it adds cost and complication.

[bosco]

http://www.directinjectionengine.com/

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MpoPNK-gNg]YouTube - New Nissan 1.6L Engine DIRECT INJECTION GASOLINE TURBO[/ame]

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxvp9F-PS34&feature=related]YouTube - Hyundai's New Theta Engine with GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) Technology[/ame]

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/22/high-end-v6s-the-lexus-direct-injection-3-5l-and-cadillac-3-6l/

[DukeTrout]

People seem to have skipped past the exhaust valve timing. Who really cares what they are doing in the garden-variety na engines. With intake and exhaust timing, plus intake valve lift from the JDM 2.0 and all the 3.6L engines, the turbo models will be that much more tunable...

[sti2k5]

Welcome to the forum.

 

 

Thanks for the advice on my next car selection i can tell by your response you are very knowledgeable in the automotive field.

 

Just because I am new here, does not say anything about my knowledge of vehicles...you sir, may be a great "magazine mechanic" because you read up on a lot of things...I have been working on engines since I was old enough to tear apart my first lawnmower at 8...

 

DI is just another gimmick, look how many drag racers still make huge power with a blow through carb...

one more thing to go wrong IMO

[PhilT]

Just because I am new here, does not say anything about my knowledge of vehicles...you sir, may be a great "magazine mechanic" because you read up on a lot of things...I have been working on engines since I was old enough to tear apart my first lawnmower at 8...

 

DI is just another gimmick, look how many drag racers still make huge power with a blow through carb...

one more thing to go wrong IMO

 

So while you are working in your shed on your lawnmower, billions of dollars have been spent by industry on developing DI, but it's all wasted because it's just something else to go wrong.

 

Active valve timing, hydraulic cam lifters etc etc are all a waste of time because they are all something else to go wrong ? is that what you are saying ?

 

On top of that you compare drag racing to production automobiles. If at least you had compared F1 to the auto industry, then at least what is developed in F1 trickles down to the street eventually.

 

Time to go back in the shed and give the lawnmower its winter service

[jagcars26]

 

Time to go back in the shed and give the lawnmower its winter service

 

Well played.

[LittleBlueGT]

DI is just another gimmick, look how many drag racers still make huge power with a blow through carb...

one more thing to go wrong IMO

 

You could not be further from the truth sir.

 

Besides the benefits of fuel economy, the biggest thing that an enthusiast likes about DI, is the ability it has to make more power.

 

On pump gas detonation is the limiting factor in how much timing we can run, and we run things rich for the cooling benefit of the extra fuel, which unfortunately is richer then the best ratio for power.

 

With DI detonation is not a thing of the past, but due to the fueling being introduced much later, the car can be tuned leaner, and more timing can be added.

 

I don't know how much of a difference it would make on our engines, but basing it off the tuning that goes on with Porsche's and Mazda's DI engines another 20-25 hp would be available from our 2.5 liter engines (all other things being equal).

[Ridgeracer]

LBGT.....Good points on the longer stroke and smaller bores. More torque and same hp if redlines are maintained. Plus VVT on both intake and exhaust. Would be great to get forged piston and a stonger block out the gate.

[bosco]

Just because I am new here, does not say anything about my knowledge of vehicles...you sir, may be a great "magazine mechanic" because you read up on a lot of things...I have been working on engines since I was old enough to tear apart my first lawnmower at 8...

 

DI is just another gimmick, look how many drag racers still make huge power with a blow through carb...

one more thing to go wrong IMO

 

I don't recall saying anything about how long you have been a member here and working on engines does not make you an engineer it makes you a mechanic.

Di is far from a gimmick it is proven technology and it is the future but i wouldn't expect to see it on lawnmowers anytime soon.

 

With that said i'll go back to my magazine.

[GTS Jeff]

Hmmm....

 

Honda, the finest small engine maker in the world, not yet embracing DI on their economy-rooted engines. Toyota, not yet embracing in their economy-rooted engines.

 

Nissan, not yet embracing.

 

I could go on and on. With the exception of volkswagon, who has done it on the GTI.

 

DI is a good technology advance, but much like so many technologies before it, it adds cost and complication.

So according to you, only VW likes DI? Man are you ever misinformed:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection

 

Nissan has been using DI in many of their models for a few years now. Other car makes use it a lot too...GM, Alfa, BMW, Mazda....

 

Toyota not using DI for cheap cars? http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_directinjection_coming_masses/

Check the date on that article too, LOL.

 

Honda is hardly a good company to look up for trend setting haha. They were toying around with DI for years and why they haven't pushed it out is beyond me. Then again, it's also beyond me why they would axe the NSX, S2000, RSX, and Prelude lines. It's beyond me why they handicapped the much anticipated CR-Z by making it into a bitch hybrid that is nothing more than a warmed over Insight. The hottest thing going for Honda right now is a riced up 4 door economy car that you can't even buy in North America!! Hey, if this is your idea of a good direction to take, then sure yeah, Subaru doesn't need DI either and they should totally follow in Honda's footsteps. Maybe the next STI will be a hybrid with a CVT. Maybe they'll even abandon AWD...oh wait, they already have with the FT-86...:lol:

[stingray1967]

It has been pointed out that the new engine makes very similar HP and TQ numbers.

 

I want to see the hp and tq curves. You can still make the same PEAK number, but have a much more powerful engine because it develops more power throughout the rev range. Look at the 430 and 430 Scuderia Ferrari for example.