BAC5.2 Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 What springs do you run on Bilstein HD's so that you retain full OEM ride height on a Legacy GT Wagon? I've heard conflicting reports about how the HD's respond. Some say that they are using the stock LGT wagon springs with good success. Some say that is a terrible idea. What springs would you use so that you retain full factory ride height? [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 rallitek springs would probably be close to stock ride height with a spacer in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactojesse Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 JDM LGT wagon springs are designed for Bilstein-style top hats and should work. However, when I tried the set of used JDM LGT wagon springs I bought w/ the HDs, the front was about 5/8" higher than the stock ride height, so I switched to STI pinks in the front w/ the JDM LGT wagon springs in the rear. My front is now lower than stock, but the fender to tire gaps are the same front and rear at two fingers, as compared to three fingers in front and two fingers in the rear with my stock USDM LGT wagon suspension. I would imagine that a set of USDM Spec B front springs and JDM LGT wagon rear springs would be about the perfect combo and get you stock ride height w/ Bilstein HDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 Where do you get JDM LGT wagon springs? Specifically, where do I find JUST the rears? Odd that the front JDM LGT wagon springs are higher... Is the spring rate similar to the OE spec-B front springs? How much lower is your setup than stock? How do you like the ride? [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactojesse Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Where do you get JDM LGT wagon springs? Specifically, where do I find JUST the rears? Odd that the front JDM LGT wagon springs are higher... Is the spring rate similar to the OE spec-B front springs? How much lower is your setup than stock? How do you like the ride? You can get JDM LGT wagon springs from Japanparts or a set occasionally shows up in the classifieds here (that's how I found mine). Yeah, I thought it was odd too. No specs are available for the JDM LGT springs, but they are supposedly somewhere between pinks and USDM LGT springs. My guess is that they are probably comparable to USDM Spec B springs. Since the difference in spring rates between USDM LGT springs (200 lbs/in F/300 lbs/in R) and pinks is only around 9-10% (3.9 kg/mm or 218 lbs/in F/5.9 kg/mm or 330 lbs/in R), I figured it that it wouldn't hurt that much to mix and match. My set-up is about 3/4" lower than stock in front and is approximately stock height in the rear, which makes the fender gaps roughly equal. The ride quality is okay, but not great. I need to do the bump stop mod to the front Bilsteins to get full travel out of them w/ the pinks. That would probably improve things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 Hmm, I wonder if I use JDM LGT Wagon springs along with a 1/2" spacer in the rear. Travel is important to me, I don't want to limit it. Is your ride quality "okay" just because the fronts bottom out? I want "awesome" ride quality. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactojesse Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Hmm, I wonder if I use JDM LGT Wagon springs along with a 1/2" spacer in the rear. Travel is important to me, I don't want to limit it. Is your ride quality "okay" just because the fronts bottom out? I want "awesome" ride quality. Who knows. I may have just got a mix-matched set of JDM LGT wagon springs. I'll bet USDM Spec B springs + 1/2" spacer in the rear would work great w/ Bilstein HDs and be a lot easier to find. Yeah, my ride quality isn't great because I'm not getting full travel. I didn't do the bump stop mod, which involves cutting the bump stop in 1/2 to allow for full travel w/ lowered springs in front. I'll bet ride quality will be awesome w/ either a full set of JDM LGT wagon springs or USDM Spec B springs plus spacer. However, if you haven't already purchased the Bilstein HDs, you will probably get the best ride quality by running the Koni adjustable struts/shocks w/ stock USDM LGT wagon springs and setting the dampening on the softest setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 Really? I've heard a lot of people say that they don't like the Koni inserts in their Legacys. I wonder what the USDM Spec-B spring rates are, and how they'd work in the rear (are they stiff enough)? [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexster Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 I want "awesome" ride quality. I have the HDs with JDM pink springs. It is lower and much stiffer than stock, not what most people would call awesome ride quality. The HDs are valved more aggressive than any of the USDM Legacy struts. But trust me, that will be a good thing when paired with a soft spring. When you add lowering springs the ride quality suffers. As sactojesse said, If you want to retain the stock height you can get USDM Spec B springs for the front and use them with USDM or JDM GT wagon springs in the rear. You could probably also get away with using the USDM spec b sedan springs in the back, too. Either way you might end up needing spacers in the back because all the stock springs tend to make the rear appear to sag. I just ordered a set myself because my car seems to be sinking out back... http://www.fredbeansparts.com/index.php/suspension-parts/subaru-legacy-rear-spring-spacer-s.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxiboy Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Pinks for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagcars26 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Pinks for me too.IMO you're not going to lose that much travel because the pinks don't lower the car that much. I ran the pinks with the stock struts fr a few years but after installing the bilstien/pink combo it gave me a little more travel I think.Plus the car sits level with no spacers.Ride is not rough at all for me and wifey but then again I realize ride comfort is all subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Hmm, so it really seems like there is no no-drop option that is well paired with the HD's. This OBXT has iON Sport Spec fronts and HD rear springs: http://www.ionperformance.com/GB/iONOBXT.jpg And that is too low for me. That's the size tire I'll be running (stock diameter). I want more ride height than that, though. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I think I might just get some custom made springs. I just need to determine free-length and rate. Plus, all of the aftermarket springs I've found are like $400+! That is INSANE! I might just straight copy the Bilstein Outback BTS spring rates: 3.0kg/mm front, 4.6kg/mm rear, and have them made to the stock LGT wagon free-length (well, I would need to find out what the stock spring rates are for the LGT wagon first). [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 HDs with any aftermarket spring will not improve ride quality. Every aftermarket spring that is sold for the legacy is a "performance" oriented spring. HDs are also not the right direction for ride quality. They are "stiff"... especially compared to a stock OBXT strut. If you reuse stock springs, you might get lucky and find an improved ride, but I wouldn't count on it. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 By improved ride, I do mean stiffer. I just don't want harsh or jarring. The stock suspension makes the car, literally, a boat. It bounces around so much, it's hard to believe that Subaru considers the car safe. The coilovers are dead perfect for smooth roads, but my wife wants something more kid friendly when the road gets choppy. I'm simply trying to find the happy medium. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 I wonder if my stock OBXT springs would fit... The current struts are REALLY underdamped for the springs I have. If the Bilsteins are the same dimensions as the stock Legacy struts, then I should be in good shape. The rear springs look identical between the LGT wagon and the OBXT. This is exactly the ride height I want: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/lgt-wagon-suspension-swapped-into-outback-xt-140548.html [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 This is the most frustrating thing in the world! All I want is a LGT wagon spring that DOESN'T lower the car! Why doesn't anyone make anything like this!? [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 So why won't stock springs suit you? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 No one seems to suggest that setup. Are the lower perch heights the same on the bilsteins as they are on the regular wagon struts? [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shralp Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 might want to look at the Whiteline Control springs. I've run these both in my '98 GT wagon and now in my '05. They make two different sets. Control and Flat Out, (which drop you like Swift, H & R, etc). The Control springs drop you about 3/4" if that. Unless you know what you're looking at or comparing side to side with a stock LGT, my car looks pretty much stock height, (running JDM Rev. A Bilsteins with it). They are a stiffer than stock, (sport spring). Love 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactojesse Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 You will need the Spec B top hats to run Bilsteins. Running springs designed for the stock KYB front struts on Bilsteins w/ the Spec B top hats will yield a ride height that is about 5/8" higher than w/ KYB-style top hats. No difference in the rear though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 That is GREAT news! That means that Pinks for a non-bilstein wagon will have effectively no drop in the front! I can just make my own 5/8" saggy butt spacer and press out the studs of the rear top hat and use grade-8 bolts in their place! Now to find a pair of wagon pinks! To be clear, I need the first set of front springs, and the 3rd set of rear springs from japanparts? http://japanparts.com/db/partslist.php?dealer=1&car=141&middle=3&small=9 [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Since Pinks are JDM, I think all of them are designed for Bilsteins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactojesse Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Since Pinks are JDM, I think all of them are designed for Bilsteins. Agreed. All pinks are designed for Bilsteins because JDM LGTs and Spec Bs run Bilsteins, unlike USDM models where the LGTs get KYBs. BAC5.2, your best bet is to get some stock Spec B springs in front and LGT wagon springs in back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthesnail Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Check out this link for Pinks: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/jdm-sti-pinks-springs-group-buy-132198.html You can save something like $100 a set (over japanparts prices) and you can choose your fronts and rears from better descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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