vegita2201 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Good news about a possible USDM Spec B with Bilsteins?? The retrofit for '05 owners will be cheaper than getting the JDM models from Japan. (waits for P/N's) Please don't raise my hopes like this only to be crushed like the many bugs on my windshield this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 USDM LGTs are not twin scrolls. We got an extra half litre instead. My bad. I didn't take the time to research. Here's a Spec B rumor from Sport Compact Car - looks like 2.0 w/ twin-scroll turbo. My thinking is, if they just did away with the 2.0 in the WRX, why would they introduce another 2.0 in the Spec B? My guess is that it'll get a 2.5 for the American market, maybe the STi motor? : http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0306scc_legacy/ Subaru Legacy GT Spec B Think of it as a larger WRX STi By Paul Hansen Photography: Paul Hansen The new Subaru Legacy GT Spec B is powered by a 276-hp single twin-scroll turbocharged and intercooled 2.0-liter flat-four. No, it's not yet sold in America, but we hear it will be in 2005. The GT Spec B receives a more aggressive front bumper than the standard Legacy and significant aerocladding underneath. Inside, a driver-oriented cockpit features a small, sporty airbag-equipped three-spoke MOMO steering wheel similar to the new WRX STi. Both 4AT and 5AT sport models are blessed with tiptronic-style upshift/downshift buttons on the steering wheel. . . . See the link for the whole article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Angus Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 that article is almost a year old. i actually read it before i bought mine almost 8 months ago, so i wouldn't get overly excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 that article is almost a year old... That was my first thought after I posted it, that it might be old. I went back to check for date - no date on the article. I think our Legacy GT is roughly the equivalent of the Spec B in other markets, so maybe all the Spec B rumors are just pointing to what we already have. Now, if they just drop in the STi motor, with all its premium goodies, and the STi 6-spd, THAT would make a good Spec B for our market. I understand that the 300 hp STi motor actually puts out around 320 hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosca Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hey guys, I'm finance. Software, not hardware. Sorry if I mix up the terminology! And I'm simply not as plugged into the source; I don't take the phone call, I listen to half of it and ask "What was that about?" Ask me how the finance deals and the stairstep money work, I'll write for hours! We don't think it's going to be the sequential turbo. We think it's going to be around 275hp. Sure, absolutely you could mod your car to get lots more. This will be pretty cool, though. Tom FRA-GEE-LAY... It must be Italian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 It might be the H6 Spec B with Bilsteins. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 It might be the H6 Spec B with Bilsteins. Kevin It seems plausible that they'll offer a tweaked 4, somewhere between 275 and 300 hp, to test the waters for a future twin-turbo H6 running 350 or more. I could definitely see them putting the STi motor in, and advertising it at 276 hp so we don't expect STi performance out of the slightly heavier Legacy. They could detune the engine slightly to take the boy-racer edge off it. If they put the STi motor, tranny, and suspension in the Legacy, with a bit of Legacy-specific tuning, that would make for a nice Spec B. If it sells well, or sells out (if they limit the number), that would whet our appetites and set the stage for a Legacy STi with the twin-turbo H6. But that's all just pure speculation until we actually see some real evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 I could definitely see them putting the STi motor in, and advertising it at 276 hp so we don't expect STi performance out of the slightly heavier Legacy. It already does have an STi motor. Only the turbo, intercooler and ecu programming that are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Angus Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 It already does have an STi motor. Only the turbo, intercooler and ecu programming that are different. isnt the cam profile less aggresively tuned as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 It already does have an STi motor. Only the turbo, intercooler and ecu programming that are different. I had heard that the Legacy motor didn't have the titanium connecting rods that the STi has. I also remember reading something about the STi motor being a closed-deck block, while the Legacy wasn't. I could be wrong. Besides, I don't even know the difference between closed-deck and open-deck! I think it has something to do with the block structure around the crankshaft, but I'd have to do some research to verify. So, anyway, the Legacy motor may have some parts from the STi motor, but it's different enough to qualify as a different motor (from what I've heard). Update: It appears that both the Legacy and the STi have a semi-closed-deck motor, so they do appear to have the same block. I'll try to find info on the internal parts differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 do a search. the STi/LGT/Forester XT engines are very similar but tuned differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 OK, engine time... Closed block, in reference to the subaru flat engines, and most others, refers to the "top" end of the block, where the head mating surface is. If you take the head off of a closed deck engine, you see the bores and pistons in them, and a few head stud holes, and a few oblong holes a few centimeters across that pass coolant between the water jackets in the block and the head. Otherwise the surface is mostly metal. The same scenario in an open deck engine, you see the bores (usually separate metal sleeves pressed into the block) and almost all the area around the bores is open, and you can see down into the water jackets between the cylinders, with some webbing, and bosses for head bolts, etc. mating to the head surface. It basically uses the head's face as the top wall of the water jacket. The bottom of the water jackets, at the base of the cylinder bores are closed, though to separate the water jackets from the crankcase. Open blocks are probably easier to cast and machine, lend themselves to steel or iron cylinder sleeves in an aluminum block, and are likely lighter due to less metal in the structure. However, they are weaker for the same reason. For a non-performance engine, open blocks are a good compromise. Closed blocks require more to cast and machine to gaurantee a flat surface to mate to the head. It can be sleeved, but doesn't necessarily need to be. It is heavier, but much stiffer and more rigid. With performance motors, especially high-revving ones, closed blocks are much more stable, and can take allow more horsepower to be made. Semi-closed blocks are a mix between the two, with large water jacket passages, and some coolant contact with the head gasket and head face, but much more structurally reinforced than a completely open block. I believe Subaru EJ20 and ej25 motors are semi-closed blocks, but I could be wrong. Wunderkind and others are correct when they say that all of Subaru's 2.5 Turbos are the same basic engine. They are. EJ255 and EJ257 engines are basically the same thing, with perhaps some valvetrain slight differences. The 257 being the slightly higher output version. I think the WRX STi is the only one to get the 257, the rest get the 255, but you wouldn't be able to tell them mechanically apart from the outside, other than perhaps the STi's red crinkle coat heads and intake. The intake manifolds, intercooler geometry, turbo specifications, and engine controls (ECU and Sensors) are the only major differences between all of Subaru's 2.5 turbos. Even the 2.0 Liter is basically the same with slightly smaller cylinder volume. The Nasioc thread mentioned at the beginning of this thread refers to a possibility of a twin-scroll turbocharger. All that means is that the turbo impeller (exhaust side) is split into two chambers, and two opposite firing cylinders feed each with an exhaust pulse every 180degrees of crank rotation into each "scroll chamber". Basically it smooths out the energy being put into the exhaust turbine, allowing it to be turned more efficiently, and without exhaust pulses "fighting" each other to get into the turbo, and pushing backwards back toward the engine. It allows the turbo to start spooling sooner, and staying on boost longer. A twin-scroll turbocharged Leg GT Spec B might not have much higher peak hp and torque numbers than the standard GT 2.5 Turbo. But it would be a bit different in the driving, due to more linear performance, and more power before hitting the peak. Here's to hoping that the Spec B does indeed have the twin scroll turbo. Please someone correct me if I am getting this wrong... But hopefully that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 OK, engine time... Thanks for the great info. That clears things up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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