pros and cons of E85

[gstreev]

Hmmm, can shops still tune the original Accessports?

 

What's your elevation?

 

You may be able to get away with stock fueling depending on your elevation. Even at 2,300 ft. above sea-level and zero WGDC above 5,000 rpm, I was stressing the stock fuel system. I would plan to upgrade the fuel pump, fuel injectors and a tune.

 

Most of my driving is at 100' above sea level, sometimes I'll drive up to a 2000' elevation. Not sure out the original Accessport.

[B-BGTLimited]

Just be glad you even have the option to use E85

 

There is not ONE E85 gas station in my area closest ones are Boston area, or NY somewhere... nothing in CT or RI.

[mwiener2]

AP V1 can still be tuned

[titsataki]

I am not sure if it is true but I hear people complain about startup issues on real cold mornings? Is it a tuning thing or something that comes with E85?

 

we do not have it in CT yet so I am juts going to wait...

 

Cheers

 

 

Nick

[biz77]

Most of my driving is at 100' above sea level, sometimes I'll drive up to a 2000' elevation. Not sure out the original Accessport.

 

With that in mind, plus the info Mweiner provided, you should upgrade your injectors, fuel pump and have a local shop tune for the setup. You will want a tune for gasoline and one for ethanol. You can easily switch between these maps with your Accessport.

[ClimberDHexMods]

With that in mind, plus the info Mweiner provided, you should upgrade your injectors, fuel pump and have a local shop tune for the setup. You will want a tune for gasoline and one for ethanol. You can easily switch between these maps with your Accessport.

 

It doesn't NEED to be a LOCAL shop. It COULD be a guy off in email land, and you car wouldn't necessarily be tuned a less for it. More options for you.

[biz77]

It doesn't NEED to be a LOCAL shop. It COULD be a guy off in email land, and you car wouldn't necessarily be tuned a less for it. More options for you.

 

 

Yes and no. For example, Infamous would not be able to. One would need AccessTuner (only available to Cobb dealers) to tune a ver.1 A/P.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Yes and no. For example, Infamous would not be able to. One would need AccessTuner (only available to Cobb dealers) to tune a ver.1 A/P.

 

Infamous can tune a V1 AP.

 

Might want to confirm with him first since not every version/car is AP tuneable with Infamous.

[mattg]

My car was just re-tuned with my V1 AP.

 

I <3 E85. My car used to stumble and miss occasionally at idle. It hasn't skipped a beat once on E85. It runs like I always hoped it would. The extra power is really nice too. My car is much faster than ever before.

[mwiener2]

you car wouldn't necessarily be tuned a less for it.

 

 

Not true. Can't tune timing (especially on E85) without a dyno. Unless you have a dyno facility or a few thousand dollars worth of test equipment you hook up to your car for logging sessions.... a remote tune will never be as good as a real tune.

[mattg]

My E85 tune isn't complete yet because of a fuel pump issue we ran into. Turns out the o-ring in my FP assembly wasn't seated properly, and the additional fuel demand made that obvious. I asked Jarrad if we could finish it e-tune style and he said no, it has to be finished on the dyno.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Not true. Can't tune timing (especially on E85) without a dyno. Unless you have a dyno facility or a few thousand dollars worth of test equipment you hook up to your car for logging sessions.... a remote tune will never be as good as a real tune.

 

my thought process being that MBT is pretty well narrowed down, and airboy power calculations can do the rest. The product from an experienced E-tuner will be excellent. Sure it's not exact. And you won't really know without a dyno. In circles we go. Considering most people don't live near a top notch EJ25 E85 tuner with a good AWD dyno, an e-tune is a pretty darn good idea (as long as you pick the right tuner). To say your average local tuner can definitely produce a better tune than an e-tuner is incorrect a lot of the time.

 

E85 is a super forgiving fuel, which can cover up a lot of sub-par work as well. People should probably be made aware of that while we're on the topic.

[mwiener2]

I didn't say anything about local tuners

 

 

airboy is only as good as the data you put into it

[ClimberDHexMods]

I didn't say anything about local tuners

 

 

airboy is only as good as the data you put into it

 

Fair enough

[LittleBlueGT]

Can't tune timing (especially on E85) without a dyno. Unless you have a dyno facility or a few thousand dollars worth of test equipment you hook up to your car for logging sessions.... a remote tune will never be as good as a real tune.

 

I hear what you are saying, but you are not 100% correct.

 

If (and these are if's, possibly big ones):

 

-the guy that logs the car (likely the owner) does repeatable runs on the exact same stretch of road, essentially back to back

-a few runs are done to average out any inconsistencies

-the E-tuner has previous knowledge and experience with E85 on comparable set-ups

-timing is kept a little conservative to be on the safe side (bearing will thank you)

 

.......then E85 can be successfully tuned by e-tuning, even timing.

 

I do agree that a dyno is an excellent tool for optimizing timing, especially on a fuel that can meet and exceed MBT.

[LGTspecB1657615261]

I was happy with my E85 e-Tune. If timing was not optimized it sure felt good to me! I hit 330 WTQ on a stock turbo on a heartbreak mustang dyno. So I was happy.

 

I do not disagree with the comments though.

[mwiener2]

I hear what you are saying, but you are not 100% correct.

 

If (and these are if's, possibly big ones):

 

-the guy that logs the car (likely the owner) does repeatable runs on the exact same stretch of road, essentially back to back relying on stock sensors that are not appropriate nor adequate for proper tuning

-a few runs are done to average out any inconsistencies based off stock sensors

-the E-tuner has previous knowledge and experience with E85 on comparable set-ups E85 DOES NOT KNOCK, and if the E-tuner's entire range of experience is based off stock sensors...

-timing is kept a little conservative to be on the safe side (bearing will thank you) Timing can range many degrees and not show anything when measured with stock sensors, basically a complete unknown without proper measuring devices, whatever they may be and usually not present on E-tunes

 

.......then E85 can be successfully tuned by e-tuning, even timing.

 

I do agree that a dyno is an excellent tool for optimizing timing, especially on a fuel that can meet and exceed MBT.

[LittleBlueGT]

I stand 100% behind my statement.

 

I know E85 doesn't knock (well practically in our uses).

 

I am not talking about relying on OEM knock sensor. I am talking about using consistent logging to measure power, to find when one is approaching MBT, close to it, or exceeding it.

 

 

Many many guys doing road logging have very successfully tuned E85, in fact I would bet a lot of them do better then a "pro-tuner" due to the fact that they put many many hours of TLC into the tune, and a pro-tuner cannot.

 

That means that it can be done via E-tuning.

 

I am not saying it is not w/o risk, and either the tuner or the one logging can kinda screw it up. But it is very possible to do it via e-tuning, and do it well!

[mwiener2]

The knock sensor is pretty much useless with E85.... besides the fact that once you change something on the engine (exhaust especially) the knock sensor is no longer calibrated properly

[ClimberDHexMods]

I think people are confusing other people's assumptions on the quality of tuner. If we assume a highly experienced EJ25 E85 e-tuner who does his research vs a comparable level dyno+road tuner who does his research, then this all makes a lot more sense. Obviously the e-tuner would have to be familiar with E85 MBT or he should not be tuning it without a dyno.

 

All that aside, I am still confused. If you log several runs each of different timing tables under similar conditions on the same road, and some show the car making more power than others, is that not a decent indication of where timing should be? It's on the street (not in a foreign 'control' setting) to boot. Not saying it will read like a dyno, but is it lacking in such a way that the clone dyno car will be notably superior to the street-tuned car in an ideal comparison?

[mwiener2]

some show the car making more power than others, is that not a decent indication of where timing should be?

 

logs don't show power output

[ClimberDHexMods]

logs don't show power output

 

They show delta speed vs time. That is what I mean to say. MAF and load and AFR and weight all aside for the moment. Am I lost on the wrong variables? (Personal goal is to make car accelerate faster.)

[mwiener2]

 

no, there's just way too many of them to get accurate results

[LittleBlueGT]

no, there's just way too many of them to get accurate results

 

You are wrong.

 

Have you tuned, logged hundreds if not thousands of runs, to see consistent results?

 

Didn't think so.

 

A dyno is a useful tool, so is a road dyno. IN THE RIGHT HANDS, both can be used to give excellent results.

[Strizzy]

Bumping this up to add a question about properly running E85...

First off, I'm replacing the rubber sections of my fuel lines with ones that won't degrade from the ethanol. My question is about the type of oil to use specifically with E85, since E85 degrades the oil. I know I can use Motul v300, but at almost $100 each oil change, I'll say no thanks to that. This will also be for a freshly built motor, and I would like for it to live a long and healthy life (while still screaming bloody murder while going through the gears).

Any advice?

Thanks.