How to make an STS "Shorty Shifter"

[MDW25gt]

Because an actual STS changes the leverage. Shortening the lever arm (shifter) will give you a shorter throw via having a shorter distance to move your hand, but will also increase the effort required to shift, regardless of what some guy with a hacksaw says. A $120 STS moves the pivot point, it's not just a shorter top end.

 

Then again, if you feel like using a hacksaw on your $30k car to save a hundred bucks then that's your choice, albiet a slightly retarded one IMO. :shrug: Some people just like to do things the right way I guess.

 

Good point. A shorter lever arm (the thing in your hand) changes the pivot point and the force to actuate increases! I dont see what can be done on the other side of the pivot to balance that?? I dont know enough about the design of either. So yes, you can say I am a retard. In reply, I would ask you to show me with some data. (A picture of the two shifters would do.) I can't see this in my simple mind? I stand corrected if you can back up what you say with something that proves your point. If not I guess YOU stand corrected! The guy said it was easy enough to shift.

 

Still sounds like a good idea to me.

[JuxtaGT]

Um, Cobb's STS let you do this same mod without hacking stuff. That is, adjust the level height without altering the pivot location. So, there is nothing wrong with hacking, it's about personal pref. I think there are worse things you could do to a $30k car, like say, modify the engine to make way more hp than stock.

[wsf0817]

Without busting out MS paint for force balance drawings (I guess you never took a statics class, or even got very far in physics) think of it this way.

When you make your shifter half as long, you now require twice the force to move the opposite end like you did before. If you were to now make the opposite end half as long, instead of requiring twice the force to make that same motion, you'd require the same as stock.

It's a matter of balancing both sides of the pivot.

In the end, the syncros are going to determine how fast you shift, and jamming it from gear to gear is only going to wear them out and ruin your transmission.

I won't disagree that the goose neck looks pretty dumb, I was just pointing out the flaws in logic. That's all.

[JuxtaGT]

WTF? Why are you getting so bent out of shape and trying to flame people for like, your 12th post on this site? I don't think anybody doing this mod cares if you have to push a little harder on the lever. The point is to shorten the distance between shifts, while not spending <$90 on a new lever. Most here also know to take care that at some point, you risk shifting faster than the syncros can engage. I think we all passed high school physics....

 

 

I know, don't feed the trolls. But jeez, this is a site devoted to sharing knowledge. I think you can come up with ways to explain your point without being condescending to other members. Makes others more inclined to help you with problems slighlty more complicated then a STS mod.

 

Without busting out MS paint for force balance drawings (I guess you never took a statics class, or even got very far in physics) think of it this way.

When you make your shifter half as long, you now require twice the force to move the opposite end like you did before. If you were to now make the opposite end half as long, instead of requiring twice the force to make that same motion, you'd require the same as stock.

It's a matter of balancing both sides of the pivot.

In the end, the syncros are going to determine how fast you shift, and jamming it from gear to gear is only going to wear them out and ruin your transmission.

I won't disagree that the goose neck looks pretty dumb, I was just pointing out the flaws in logic. That's all.

[wsf0817]

:shrug: I wasn't, some people are getting pretty bent out of shape here. No need for everyone to get so defensive. Go back and reread the first post I made.

Perhaps if people would read the facts of the posts instead of getting their panties in a wad, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

There is a difference between a well designed STS and cutting the top off your stock unit. End of story. I explained perfectly well why, yet even after doing so, you want to attack me to try and discredit my posts as just being a troll.

 

You can't argue that my opinion is wrong just because you don't happen to like the way the facts sit. Like I said before

 

if you feel like using a hacksaw on your $30k car to save a hundred bucks then that's your choice

 

It's your car, it's your money, you can do what you want. If you post about how you can lower your car on the cheap by cutting the springs, I'll also point out the flaws there as well. No reason for someone who doesn't know better to come in, and make an uninformed decision based on a biased post, like you said, the site is about sharing information.

[MDW25gt]

Without busting out MS paint for force balance drawings (I guess you never took a statics class, or even got very far in physics) think of it this way.

 

When you make your shifter half as long, you now require twice the force to move the opposite end like you did before. If you were to now make the opposite end half as long, instead of requiring twice the force to make that same motion, you'd require the same as stock.

 

It's a matter of balancing both sides of the pivot.

 

In the end, the syncros are going to determine how fast you shift, and jamming it from gear to gear is only going to wear them out and ruin your transmission.

 

I won't disagree that the goose neck looks pretty dumb, I was just pointing out the flaws in logic. That's all.

 

This is getting good! The statics, mechanisms, physics, and kinimatics courses I took have served me well for over twenty years. OK I agree with your point on the force increase. Go back and read my LAST post! By your logic if the shifter link is shortened, and the tranny link is shortened the force is same as stock. I can live with that. However the tranny stroke will also reduce. So now you are in between gears. (hard on the tranny) No? If you want to reduce the WAD in your panties. Just take picture of a stock shifter and a STS. I think this will minimise the Panty Wad effect you are getting!

 

Relax Dude. In the end we will see who stands corrected!

[wsf0817]

This is getting good! The statics, mechanisms, physics, and kinimatics courses I took have served me well for over twenty years. OK I agree with your point on the force increase. Go back and read my LAST post! By your logic if the shifter link is shortened, and the tranny link is shortened the force is same as stock. I can live with that. However the tranny stroke will also reduce. So now you are in between gears. (hard on the tranny) No? If you want to reduce the WAD in your panties. Just take picture of a stock shifter and a STS. I think this will minimise the Panty Wad effect you are getting!

 

Relax Dude. In the end we will see who stands corrected!

 

If I'm such a dumbass, care to explain how the STi shifter has a shorter throw than stock, yet retains the same height? Oh wait, I know, it must be magic. By your logic, since you aren't cutting it in half, the throw can't be shorter... must be a lot of suckers out there buying into that damn subaru marketing.

 

Here, how about reading this ( http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm ) maybe you'll listen to them since it's not some n00b spouting off :roll: and understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

Or how about the opinions of some people with more posts on LGT than me? http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16441&highlight=shifter+pic

 

Not to mention that cutting your shifter does nothing to improve the feel and slop that most people report going away when installing an STS.

 

Add in the fact, that even on a lathe, this would take more than an hour, I hardly see how I'm saving any significant money here, granted, if your time is worthless, by all means, it's a bargain. There is nothing wrong with doing something yourself, and there's nothing wrong with alternative methods. There are downsides to it, and there are proper ways to design short throw shifters, neither of which cutting the top off your stock unit addresses.

 

It doesn't matter, you won't convince me to take a hack saw when I can spend $70 on a STS, and I won't convince you not to be a hack. I'm through with this thread, but you can continue on if you want. People that want to do this will continue to do so, others, will buy, and others will stay stock. there's no right or wrong opinion on what to do with your own car. Just don't try and tell me I have to do the same thing. :shrug:

 

-edit-

 

Wow, you are a regular genius - http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22037&page=2 spouting off about topics you know nothing about, defend yourself by attacking the spelling of someones name, and in the end, make one of the most ludicrous arguments for 3000 mile oil changes I've ever heard. It's obvious that YOU aren't familiar with the principles of lubrication, mechanical wear, and modern oils. Go ahead though, keep thinking your oil and engine were manufactured with the same technology that they were in 1965.

[GTBoxer]

[wsf0817]

[MDW25gt]

If I'm such a dumbass, care to explain how the STi shifter has a shorter throw than stock, yet retains the same height? Oh wait, I know, it must be magic. By your logic, since you aren't cutting it in half, the throw can't be shorter... must be a lot of suckers out there buying into that damn subaru marketing.

 

Here, how about reading this ( http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm ) maybe you'll listen to them since it's not some n00b spouting off :roll: and understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

Or how about the opinions of some people with more posts on LGT than me? http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16441&highlight=shifter+pic

 

Not to mention that cutting your shifter does nothing to improve the feel and slop that most people report going away when installing an STS.

 

Add in the fact, that even on a lathe, this would take more than an hour, I hardly see how I'm saving any significant money here, granted, if your time is worthless, by all means, it's a bargain. There is nothing wrong with doing something yourself, and there's nothing wrong with alternative methods. There are downsides to it, and there are proper ways to design short throw shifters, neither of which cutting the top off your stock unit addresses.

 

It doesn't matter, you won't convince me to take a hack saw when I can spend $70 on a STS, and I won't convince you not to be a hack. I'm through with this thread, but you can continue on if you want. People that want to do this will continue to do so, others, will buy, and others will stay stock. there's no right or wrong opinion on what to do with your own car. Just don't try and tell me I have to do the same thing. :shrug:

 

-edit-

 

Wow, you are a regular genius - http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22037&page=2 spouting off about topics you know nothing about, defend yourself by attacking the spelling of someones name, and in the end, make one of the most ludicrous arguments for 3000 mile oil changes I've ever heard. It's obvious that YOU aren't familiar with the principles of lubrication, mechanical wear, and modern oils. Go ahead though, keep thinking your oil and engine were manufactured with the same technology that they were in 1965.

 

Relax man, I did not call you a dumbass?? I am looking to be educated. Show me the difference between the STS and stock. Dont just keep talking. But all you keep doing is "Short Shifting " to another topic. Not sure how oil comes into this??

 

Slop in the shifter can be helped with bushing even in the stock shifter. And yes the after market may be built to closer tolerances. i.e. tighter feel. But if a few hours work and an $8 die get me 80% of the way, thats what I am doing. Good bang for the buck and also self satisfaction. But I guess if you have more dollars than sense you might opt for the $120 route and paying someone to do it.

 

I am really interested in knowing! Enlighten me.

[JuxtaGT]

Seriously, this is one of the most retarded arguments I've seen. Stop slapping your e-penis' around. All you guys are really doing is wasting the time of anybody reading this thread who might actually want to read about people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY DONE THE MODs opinion. Argue theory and kinematics over PM.

[MDW25gt]

As I said a couple of times I am interested in understanding the difference between an STS and stock shifter. I believe this was one of my original questions. It does not sound like wsfo817 has any of that information. Thats too bad he/she came off as knowing something. Not trying to flame anyone. The shifter wsfo817 is refering to in his link is not even called a STS. In fact they say the ratio is the same. I think they call theirs a Preformance Shifter. Maybe that is the confusion. Oh well if anyone has some good info I am still interested is understanding this better.

[zildjiank]

As I said a couple of times I am interested in understanding the difference between an STS and stock shifter. I believe this was one of my original questions. It does not sound like wsfo817 has any of that information. Thats too bad he/she came off as knowing something. Not trying to flame anyone. The shifter wsfo817 is refering to in his link is not even called a STS. In fact they say the ratio is the same. I think they call theirs a Preformance Shifter. Maybe that is the confusion. Oh well if anyone has some good info I am still interested is understanding this better.

 

I too wish to know the same...and this one question: Does this mod HURT the car or TRANSMISSION in any way, or wear it out, as I have heard some say (though I am looking for other opinions to support...). Seems like a good fix, if the bushings also are replaced. Any else know about this?

[JuxtaGT]

Diagram from the B&M website should clear this up. The answer to whether it can hurt your transmission or not? Yes and no. You can hurt your transmission with a normal shifter by using too much force, trying to shift to fast (sychros can't engage quickly enough, bear in mind that we have constant-mesh transmissions, you are not moving gears around, just which one is connected to the drive shaft), or not using the clutch correctly. A shorter level and ratio means if you are not precise, you have a higher chance of the above problems. Think of it this way, if you grab your shift level 35 mm below the top of the knob , and shift holding it there, are you gonna hurt anything. no.

 

Edit: "Modified" in this diagram would be a STS for us

[BDII]

Ben Folds Five CD.....

 

Having trouble locating this part......

 

J/K!!!

 

great write up!!!!

[MDW25gt]

Diagram from the B&M website should clear this up. The answer to whether it can hurt your transmission or not? Yes and no. You can hurt your transmission with a normal shifter by using too much force, trying to shift to fast (sychros can't engage quickly enough, bear in mind that we have constant-mesh transmissions, you are not moving gears around, just which one is connected to the drive shaft), or not using the clutch correctly. A shorter level and ratio means if you are not precise, you have a higher chance of the above problems. Think of it this way, if you grab your shift level 35 mm below the top of the knob , and shift holding it there, are you gonna hurt anything. no.

 

Good diagram. But this looks like the "modified" shifter is changed at both ends. Both links changed. The original post, I thought, just talked about changing the Knob end shorter by 35mm. Or said another way if you modify a standard shifter by shortening the top link nothing else changes. Seems like this should work also. With slightly different results?? This diagram also indicates that both ends change when going from stock to STS.

[JuxtaGT]

If I understand what you are asking correctly, let me try and explain. If you shorten the height above the pivot on any shift level, you will achieve a shorter throw between gears. You can also acomplish this "moving the pivot up" on the shaft, and using a slightly longer overall length lever. This is how the STi STS is about the same height as stock, but has a shorter throw. By shortening the height even further on the STi STS, cutting it down by 35mm, will shorten throw between gears even more, but increase the effort required to move the level throught the synchros.

 

Without buying a new lever, or shifter, you cannot decrease throw length by adding more distance between the pivot and linkage attachment. You can, however, decrease throw by cutting the top part down a small amount as this mod desribes.

 

You could also buy Cobb's STS, which allows you to adjust both the height of the lever, and the shift throw distance independant of each other:

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/drivetrain-i.html#shifter

 

But, it's $135, and this mod is free!

[MDW25gt]

If I understand what you are asking correctly, let me try and explain. If you shorten the height above the pivot on any shift level, you will achieve a shorter throw between gears. You can also acomplish this "moving the pivot up" on the shaft, and using a slightly longer overall length lever. This is how the STi STS is about the same height as stock, but has a shorter throw. By shortening the height even further on the STi STS, cutting it down by 35mm, will shorten throw between gears even more, but increase the effort required to move the level throught the synchros.

 

OK now this make sense. I did not realise you could change the pivot point. i.e. make the bottom link longer on the STi STS.

 

Without buying a new lever, or shifter, you cannot decrease throw length by adding more distance between the pivot and linkage attachment. You can, however, decrease throw by cutting the top part down a small amount as this mod desribes.

 

This also make sense. I did not think the lower link length could be changed on a stock shifter. Only the top, by cutting. i.e. shorter throw and slight increase in effort. (what I am considering)

 

You could also buy Cobb's STS, which allows you to adjust both the height of the lever, and the shift throw distance independant of each other:

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/drivetrain-i.html#shifter

 

But, it's $135, and this mod is free!

 

This also make sense. Thanks for the explaination.

 

Amazing what short, to the point paragraphs and a simple diagram can do to clear things up.

 

Thanks again.

Mike

[JuxtaGT]

No worries, glad I could clear it up.

 

I'm thinking of doing this over the weekend.

 

GO Dremel Tool, GO!

[MDW25gt]

No worries, glad I could clear it up.

 

I'm thinking of doing this over the weekend.

 

GO Dremel Tool, GO!

 

Go for it! Sounds like a good idea. Let me know how the bag works. Guess you can remove the boot after the knob, tap, cut, reassemble and be out in maybe 15 minutes. Its the results that count as a mod. Not the time required.

 

Let me know how it goes. With pictures.

[JuxtaGT]

Hmm, have re-thought the bag, re-read the how-to, seems like it needs to come out to be done right. If it stops raining here, I may do it. But, Cusco RSB is up first!

[team23jordan]

im gonna do this tonight or tommorow!!! woot woot

 

for yall lazy people

here's the link for the rethreading die

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1724840&PMT4NO=6905872

[etohlin]

First mod to the new LGT!!

 

Had the factory STS...now I have a shorty - STS!!

 

Excellent write up on the procedure...I picked up the die locally for $5.00.

 

Absolutly perfect now...I had the Kartboy in my 92x and this is better in my opinion. I also think the current bushings are better than what were in the 92x...but I think I will replace them as well with the KB's.

 

Thanks Andy for a great writeup.

 

Eric

[fatbastard]

Well I decided to give this a go, I was going to get the Cobb but figured I might as well give this a shot and see if I like it. I was also able to find the die locally for < 5 bucks so it was a cheap mod. Overall height of the shifter is about perfect for me, before I felt like I was always reaching up if my elbow was on the armrest. Now it falls into my hand better. So far I also like the feel better. While I realize a true STS changes the leverage to keep closer to the stock shifter feel, I thought the stock feel was too light. I think the shift effort is better balanced now with the clutch effort. So far so good, and like I said; worst case I buy the Cobb. Here are some pics of before and after.

[nike923]

need die and a hacksaw and i'm there!