carguyco Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Okay....I searched and I searched and the more I searched the more confused I got. Point me in the right direction...or do it right here. Explain Stage1,2,3,4 etc. to me and guide me obi-wan kanobes... I am completely stock...I don't want to be Should a person invest in a tune from stock to get to Stage 1 and can that be achieved on my car w/out any other mods? Should I get professionaly tuned here in town? I am very close in proximity to Revolutions Performance... should I buy a cable and attempt it myself? Should I get an AP and do it that way remotely? What is one to do...? While we are at it....splain to me how to get to Stage2 and what are the ramifications/worries? I doubt I need to know what Stage 3 is since I doubt I will do that anytime soon....my wife would kill me if I spent that kind of money... Does my altitude of normal driving (6000 ft to 9000ft daily and back) inhibit me greatly? Thanks in advance..sorry I'm such an newb...I'm just excited at the perceived possibilities.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users LieutenantDan Posted February 16, 2010 Mega Users Share Posted February 16, 2010 http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2831156#post2831156 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Ha Ha...you got me.....Thanks so much for the help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lie495s14 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2831156#post2831156 lmao i may be wrong, i believe stage 1 is just a software tunning by replacing stock map, can be achived by cobb passport or open source tunning. and that stage 2 involves everything stage 1 plus installing of high flow down pipe. the theory about exhust is more it open up, the better turbo performs. stage 3 im not so sure, turbo upgrade i guess. here is a brif describtion how exhust goes: uppipe - turbo - downpipe - cat - "somepipe" - muffler the part begin with downpipe all way to the right is called "turbo back". and the part where begin with cat all way to the right is called "cat back" not down back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGV101 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 lmao i may be wrong, i believe stage 1 is just a software tunning by replacing stock map, can be achived by cobb passport or open source tunning. and that stage 2 involves everything stage 1 plus installing of high flow down pipe. the theory about exhust is more it open up, the better turbo performs. stage 3 im not so sure, turbo upgrade i guess. here is a brif describtion how exhust goes: uppipe - turbo - downpipe - cat - "somepipe" - muffler the part begin with downpipe all way to the right is called "turbo back". and the part where begin with cat all way to the right is called "cat back" not down back. Down pipe = cat. The cats are located inside the down pipe. Cat back = anything behing the cat/down pipe but does not include the cat itself. oh, and there's also the exhaust header right before the up pipe too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Stage 1 = retune the ECU, no hardware changes Stage 2 = catless or high-flow-cat exhaust Stage 3,4,etc = means whatever anyone wants them to mean. There is no standard. "Stage 1" and "stage 2" only got standardized because Cobb's definitions for those terms caught on before anyone else's did. Since then, Cobb has stopped endorsing the use of catless exhausts for their tunes, only time will tell if the community notices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 You need to come to one of our meets, carguyco. When/wherever, I don't know. You need to get to stage 2. Find a DP. Stage 2e (DP, tune, and E85) is the best bang for the buck and enthusiast (local) has a fine example of that. At our altitude on a DD dyno, stock is around 185whp and stage 2 is 225whp. Add another 30whp (and a LOT more torque) for E85. Stage 3 is replacing the stock turbo. You don't need to do that to get a huge gain in power. Don't worry about altitude. The ecu does a fine job of dealing with it. I climb mountain passes all the time. Your first job is to find a good high-flow down-pipe. Don't get a new intake. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Thank you guys...Wow...the altitude kills us doesn't it? I have been reading that you can run E85 after a ton of changes...it appears to be worth it... Haven't yet seen a meet I can make....sure I will find it eventually. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Thank you guys... Wow...the altitude kills us doesn't it? Yes and no. Compared to an LGT at sea level we make a lot less power. But compared to NA cars, we do quite well. By boosting we replace a lot of the lost atmosphere. So, in stock form, the 0-60 on your stock LGT is about the same as a Mustang GT. But you'll easily beat a Mustang GT since NA cars lose twice the power that FI cars lose with an increase in elevation. It's why a stage 2 LGT will run neck-to-neck with a new 405HP Camaro SS up here and why a stage 3e LGT will beat one by more than a second (see my avatar). In sum, the altitude makes our cars more dominant vs. the competition... but still costs us some power too. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Great description. The problem is that we all know that the Legacy is dominant vs the competition (of which there is none) at any altitude Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 You need to get to stage 2. Find a DP. +1 Don't spend money on Stage 1; go straight to Stage 2. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. In other words: SEARCH before you post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Right again, rao! Here's some random pics of a couple of us Colorado guys racing at Bandimere to get the OP more fired up about upgrading... And how easy it is to beat NA cars.. Me leaving the '09 Camaro SS in the dust... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/BWD/Cars/Bandimere%2009/IMG_0663.jpg mweiner's OBXT taking care of a Mustang... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/BWD/Cars/Bandimere%2009/IMG_0672.jpg My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Nice. weiners car should be at least 10 lengths in front of that car if it was as fast as he says it is The Mustang must not be using the same altitude correction factors Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 weiners car should be at least 10 lengths in front of that car if it was as fast as he says it is The Mustang must not be using the same altitude correction factors Don't know why mwiener doesn't run faster... he has 55whp more than me but traps 5mph less than me. He's a bit heavier and can't launch.. but still. Maybe the dragstrip is a better indicator of power than the dyno... My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Lol...well....thanks for that hit to my pocketbook... I was already looking forward...now I may be in fast forward.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Nice. weiners car should be at least 10 lengths in front of that car if it was as fast as he says it is The Mustang must not be using the same altitude correction factors Weiner's torque wrench is out of adjustment, remember? It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 OK so the decision has been made mentally.. Catless downpipe since I don't have emissions in my county...and a Cobb AP... According to what I've read that should be stage 2 yes? Does that sound about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 OK so the decision has been made mentally.. Catless downpipe since I don't have emissions in my county...and a Cobb AP... According to what I've read that should be stage 2 yes? Does that sound about right? Sounds okay, and yes that would get you to stage 2. It's not what I would do. I would go with a catted DP and open source. Not sure the extra 10whp going catless is worth the stink/noise and (for me) emissions headache. For what you pay for an AP you can get a laptop, Tactrix cable, and still have $ left over... plus a laptop for other things. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well..I have a laptop...so that is easy. Do you think a newb can do that with help? Sounds like I can get to Stage2 relatively inexpensively then.... I just don't want to f-something up.....I'm excited.....there is a kid at the dealership w/ a neon srt4 and he calls his car a race car....he saw the LGT today and was quite excited about it..even more so than me. I am an old man and I feel younger driving this legacy..... Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well..I have a laptop...so that is easy. Do you think a newb can do that with help? Sounds like I can get to Stage2 relatively inexpensively then.... I just don't want to f-something up.....I'm excited.....there is a kid at the dealership w/ a neon srt4 and he calls his car a race car....he saw the LGT today and was quite excited about it..even more so than me. I am an old man and I feel younger driving this legacy..... Thanks for your help. You're not the only one that's old.. If you've already got a laptop then you can use that, but I wouldn't pocket that savings.. I'd turn around and spend it on a WBO2.. like the LC-1. When your car is tuned you'll be primarily adjusting timing, boost, and fueling. You can't safely optimize fueling without knowing what your AFR's really are. Yes, it's worth the safety and power to get your AFR's dialed in. So... your shopping list should be... a) DP w/ bung (or get a WB02 bung welded in by an exhaust shop prior to install), b) Tactrix cable, and c) the LC-1. In the meantime, educate yourself and download ecuflash, romraider, and learning view... all essential programs and that's all you need. As for the tuning.. it's easy.. you can post in the forum here or on romraider for help. You'll end up with a better tune vs. buying an OTS Cobb or other map. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 That is some great advice, although I have been happy with my $5 obd cable and I would NEVER EVER USE A LC-1, the open source software now supports some wide band o2 saensors that actually are easy to use and will last more than a week Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 ^^ FYI, carguyco, Rao is always right except when he disagrees with me. Actually there are a lot of LC-1 haters.. there must have been a bad batch or something... myself and the other locals that have WB02's all use the LC-1. So... you got other options.. I guess.. but don't spend more than you have to. As for parts hating... I should mention that I would not get a Perrin DP (unless you want to remodel your firewall like I had to). My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I'm not sure I have ever been right I do know that the LC-1 is a POS; just the "Free air" calibration nonsense is enough to disqualify it, even if they worked well. Just last week someone who posted in a thread that their LC-1 had performed flawlessly, sent me a PM the next day that theirs stopped working. Anyhow, pick the wideband that you like the bast - at least now there is a choice of ones that are easily integrated with the opens source tuning software. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 I am assuming having the OS software allows you to fine tune your car instead of just use basemaps and rely on someone elses tuning? Which means one would have to have some knowledge...which one would get by reading and talking with others more knowledgeable? This option sounds like the way to go if you want to UNDERSTAND what is going on with your car...which I do....so this is the way I think I would go... I'm making a list.....ERZ DP okay you think? The problem with reading reviews is that the review is only as good as the reviewer...I am slowly learning from reading on here whom should be listened to and whom not....the respected posters are obvious and the others are just as obvious...looks like I have two respected posters here chiming in back to back...so I will shut up and listen..... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I've been happy with my PLX SM-AFR. No problems with it yet. Open source is a misnomer because one of the key pieces of software, EcuFlash, isn't actually open source. But yes, "open source" is the usual route for DIY tuners, because the hardware (Tactrix OpenPort) costs less. You can pay professionals to tune your car using OS tools though. You just don't get an off-the-shelf tune for your car, like you do with a Cobb AccessPort. You can find tunes online, and adapt them to your car, but that still takes some homework. Cobb is now giving away software that you can use to tune your own car using an AccessPort and/or a laptop, so you can do it that way too. I haven't used theirs, so I can't compare. However there's a bigger/better DIY community around the "open source" tools, see the forums at http://www.romraider.com for example. Here's two more links to check out: http://www.romraider.com/forum/forum33.html <-- how-to subforum http://www.romraider.com/RomRaider/Books <-- books (maybe you guessed that already) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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