Removing Front Axles without removing the ball joint

[rao]

Glad to hear it.

[Max Capacity]

What's the issue with the cotter pins ?

 

I have learned to take a small punch and drive out the small broken pieces of pin that remain in the stud. When I install the new pins I leave them long on both ends. Honda's have taught me a lot....

 

Remember to use anti-sieze compound on all the nuts and bolts.

 

Also doesn't that bolt on the side of the lower ball joint allow it to drop out of the spindle easily ?

 

Honda's, you remove/loosen the castle nut, hit the bottom of the spindle with a 5lb hammer a few times and check to see if the ball joint has popped out of the spindle. Once you've done that, the following times are very easy.

 

Just remember to re-install the nut loosly on the ball joint stud before you start with the hammer.

[GearOnePerformance]

if u take the 19mm castle nut off the lower ball joint and wack the control arm to break the ball joint free, then pry the arm down you can get the axle out without all that

[Max Capacity]

if u take the 19mm castle nut off the lower ball joint and wack the control arm to break the ball joint free, then pry the arm down you can get the axle out without all that

 

 

Wow, just like a Honda. Only they have 17mm castle nut's. The impact gun spins them right off.

[GearOnePerformance]

yeah im a tech at suby, and with that method i can swap an axle in less than 10 min

[Max Capacity]

yeah im a tech at suby, and with that method i can swap an axle in less than 10 min

 

I hate to admit but I'm real good at it with 92-01 civic's and integra's. 30 minutes in the drivway getting the car jacked up and putting things away.

[chipster]

Just wanted to add that I was able to get the half shaft out without touching the ball joint by just unbolting the strut from the knuckle. Worked really well, I took one look at the ball joint and knew it was going to be trouble after 5 winters in Minnesota! I was replacing the struts anyway, so this was the way to go for me.

 

Thanks for the really helpful info here, I might not have tried it if I hadn't read it here first. Thought about just replacing the torn CV boots, but couldn't pass up the $44 Cardone's (new) from Rockauto. Seem to be a good fit.

[EmTee]

You know, I thought about this for a while, when I did my cv joint repack/boot. I also thought about just removing the strut mounts at top, caliper, abs sensor from the CAR (not the knuckle/spindle), removed the swaybar link then the LCA. But you know what? That sucks. I did that on a Honda/Acura, because the wishbone suspension and the strut mounting fork needing to be torched out of the control arm (captive halfshaft).

 

In this case, the point would be to preserve the camber setting in the alignment, and not unbolt any strut bolts. In your case too, you acheive that. But at least you still need to pop the tie rod end ball joint, or thread it off the steering rack and mess up your toe-in.

 

Here's my beef with your method, and my other method above:

the swaybar endlink bolts often spin inside their cup, and the hex key often rounds out because the threads are so crusty (even if you wirebrush them). (I sometimes have to remove the end links by first cutting them in half with a cutoff wheel) In the past I have sometimes solved that with some very small vicegrips, if you can fit them in, and not rape the boot.

 

And... there's an easier way:

 

I just borrowed the tool from autozone (or just buy it, I've seen it for $14). You do not need to remove the end links, you do not even need to remove the swaybar bracket as subaru recommends. You just need to pop the ball joint taper out, turn the steering wheel, put a breaker bar between the front LCA mounting point and the LCA itself, gently rest a knee on it, and the halfshaft is free (after you whale on the axle nut with an impact of course). At first I didn't think the autozone tool would fit in, but it can squeeze behind the rotor dust shield and around the end of the LCA and voila. I tried with a 2-arm gear puller, and it might have worked, but it started to lean too much to one side.

 

Again, that's disconnecting just two things, granted, one of them is a witch with a b.

 

...I'm wondering if-- with your method, or similar to your method--by turning the steering wheel enough, and possibly unbolting the rear of LCA instead, or both, you could get the half shaft out without popping the tie rod either? And then, possibly, though unlikely, if we can unbolt BOTH swaybar brackets instead of the endlinks? Or are we reaching here?

[EmTee]

if u take the 19mm castle nut off the lower ball joint and wack the control arm to break the ball joint free, then pry the arm down you can get the axle out without all that

 

Worth pointing out: Outback lower control arms are not cast iron, they are rolled steel, and as such, beating on it with a hammer by the ball joint does nothing (the goggles). It seems a Subaru tech tried that technique at some point in the past and seriously dented my control arm... I was only slightly miffed to see that, and soon followed suit myself with a large clawhammer, and then the breaker bar handle for a drive and the hand sledge to whack it (plus gear puller on stud for tension... no dice). The guy above you mentioned putting the castle nut back on before whacking, a good idea, but need to caution that that does NOT mean it protects the threads enough to hit the stud itself out with the sledge, Honda/Acura taught me that as well. Just crank the shit out of it with a balljoint separator. You can hit the end of the separator tool with a hammer nicely to help it along.

 

P.S. wear ear protection or move your head away from the knuckle when using the separator. ~.45 acp sounding.

[Max Capacity]

The guy above you mentioned putting the castle nut back on before whacking, a good idea, but need to caution that that does NOT mean it protects the threads enough to hit the stud itself out with the sledge

 

Oh yea, I hope know one would knownly want to hit the nut and stud of the ball joint.

 

What's that $14.00 tool your talking about that you put your knee on ?

 

Is it like a big ball joint fork ?

[EmTee]

What's that $14.00 tool your talking about that you put your knee on ?

 

Is it like a big ball joint fork ?

 

What I borrowed was just the one that looks like a gear puller, but is totally rigid (arms don't move). There's also that one that has a fulcrum in the middle, and the bolt you crank is off to the side. Maybe that would have been easier. This one, you have to kinda put it sideways and try to rotate it around the end of the LCA between the dust shield. Pickle forks is naughty, though I caved in and allowed my friend to resort to one on his Honda, and helped him swing a 25lb dumbell at the end of it because the 5lb sledge wasn't working ...those sort of events piqued my interest in anti-seize.

 

The knee was just on the breaker bar, or in my case, the giant tire lever off a manual tire changer. It's just enough force to flex the swaybar (as it normally would when the car turns at speed) and bring the LCA down off the stud. On a Legacy (stiffer sways?) you might need to put more weight on it, for me it was like ~35lbs or less.

[whitetiger]

if you were doing the wheel bearings, once the wheel beaing hub is removed, you can pull the axle out though the hole in the knuckle without taking anything else apart.

[EmTee]

I never knew you could take the hub out while leaving the axle alone. Looked in the service manual, sure enough... I wonder why all the hammering and denting on my control arm then...? They replaced the hub/bearing on that side under warranty. Maybe the previous owner had a set of winter wheels and a rock got caught between the arm and the wheel...lol, who knows.

[Max Capacity]

I have always had good luck with the 5lb hammer and hitting the LCA next to the ball joint.

 

Even on cars that I have had to cut the axle nut off, that always worked.

[EmTee]

Well, for solid control arms the cup that the taper sits in is "well-connected" to the exterior of the control arm, so the shock from the hammer transfers well to it, deforms it temporarily (or somewhat permanently for cast iron if you hit it too hard... I've destroyed plenty of cast iron sinks, tubs, and old boilers with steel sledges to wonder why they even make suspension parts out of it). It probably would work for solid aluminum control arms too, though aluminum is a bit more brittle and can crack when shocked, I'd be hesitant. But if the control arm is a "tube" ie. hollow, the exterior isn't in contact with that cup, and beating the shit out of it doesn't really deform the cup, it just permanently deforms the control arm (to an aesthetic but quite noticeable degree).

 

Despite all this pseudo-scientific pontification, that Honda mentioned above certainly had solid cast iron, and even had the 8lb two-hander swung at it. I think really if a fast swing of a big clawhammer doesn't do it, a sledge isn't going to help, because it's less of a shock and more of a big slow impulse that moves the whole arm. Rust just has this way of moving you down the alphabet of plans. On this Acura, I took most of the front left suspension to the machine shop (lca, knuckle, rotor, axle) to get a strut fork bolt cut out, as it was seized in a bushing, and no heating or ungodly 120 psi impact was effective. I could have ruined the axle nut and made it a touch less ridiculous, but I figured I was already bringing a mess in. I believe he used a wire saw--he said he used "the zipper"--the rubber thwarts a plasma cutter, there was no clearance for a hacksaw or cutoff wheel... the fork the bolt was stuck in occluded the bushing from being pressed out, and he said somehow the press couldn't even touch the bolt itself (the nut was off, and no threads were engaged, which is why I already tried overhead smash on it with the two-hander). I couldn't have done the job he did. I respect rust these days, and try to stay vigilant.

[Max Capacity]

These cars also have the same issue with galvanic corrosion as some of the bolts on hondas.

 

That's when you take the parts or car to the Pro's.

[trackhore]

These cars also have the same issue with galvanic corrosion as some of the bolts on hondas.

 

That's when you take the parts or car to the Pro's.

Or spend the night before a cross country roadtrip with a sawzall, torch, dead blow hammer, and handful of new rear suspension arms and bolts covered in antiseize.

[meier motor sports]

^^ yup. my rear toe adjuster bolts are seized in the bushings. that is going to be my only solution when the time comes

[EmTee]

Or spend the night before a cross country roadtrip with a sawzall, torch, dead blow hammer, and handful of new rear suspension arms and bolts covered in antiseize.

 

 

Yeah anti-seize, that's mah boy!

 

I had a similar kinda right-before-cross-country-trip kinda episode... I mean it wasn't the same issue, but similar timing. The cam bolt for the rear toe-in had fallen out on the left rear. I had probably driven to the entire way from Chicago to Boulder, CO that way, or maybe it happened somewhere along the way. But at any rate, I figured it out when I took the bike rack off the hitch to go skiing... turned out funny sound was NOT (entirely) the rack. Dealer in town didn't have the part in stock, and also wanted an appointment to "diagnose" the problem (dude, I can SEE the problem) if I wanted to have them do it. Ended up having to get the part from a Subaru yard (Super Rupair, good guys) and put the thing in myself outside of a self-storage, with borrowed tools from an old co-worker, the morning we were supposed to go skiing. We did go skiing, next day though, when we could get the money's worth out of the lift tickets. And therefore we luckily didn't try to drive up Berthoud pass (and if we survived, all the way back to IL) that way.

[EmTee]

^^ yup. my rear toe adjuster bolts are seized in the bushings. that is going to be my only solution when the time comes

 

And your story only makes me more puzzled at what happened to me. I woulda thought it would stick in easily before it just up and falls out. Luck will have it that the right side is seized, though.

[trackhore]

And your story only makes me more puzzled at what happened to me. I woulda thought it would stick in easily before it just up and falls out. Luck will have it that the right side is seized, though.

consider yourself lucky. They prefer to spontaneously seize.