What happens if you load a Stage 2 map with Stage 1 parts

[robinlsb]

cobb all the way. I know there are a ton of companies that make dp's for our cars, but i have gone with cobb on everything i could and have never had any issues. Buy one used if you can find one...

 

+1000

[rao]

so all the noise about divorced preventing turbulence is not that important? because i'll go non-divorce otherwise...it makes the search a bit broader for me allowing me a better chance of finding one.

 

It is utterly unimportant.

[robinlsb]

you dont need divorced. it causes more problems then its worth in some cases preventing the wastegate from opening all the way or it getting stuck open. i got lucky and got a catless Cobb for a fantastic deal. just look and the deal will be found and you will absolutlely LOVE stage 2

 

Cobb spent bundles of bucks on both the cat-less and catted DP for the 05 and 05+ motor.

 

Nuff said;)

[rawl2k6]

once again thanks people...you're making it that much easier for me right now...us rookies need all the help we can get...this is my first subie and the way things are going...might not be my last.

[Boostin1657615274]

Has anyone here ever actually bothered to look at the differences between the 05-06 stage 1 and stage 2 93 octane maps instead of just repeating stuff you read on the internet? There's actually not that great of a difference between stage 1 and stage 2, not compared to how many changes Cobb made from stock to stage 1. They pretty much turned up the peak boost levels and changed the timing for more low and midrange torque.

 

Main differences between stage 1 and 2:

 

-- Boost targets are higher, boost limits are slightly higher as well

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74587&stc=1&d=1255566879

 

-- Wastegate duty cycles are higher

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74588&stc=1&d=1255566879

 

-- Turbo dynamics gain values are the same

 

-- Primary ignition table: the best way to describe this is that the Stage 2 timing progression is "flatter" if you are looking down the load columns. It hits more advance at low rpm and then progresses at a slower rate depending on which region of the map you are looking at. You can tell they used a different smoothing process on this map. Any time you see a random cell change by a small random number, it's because a spreadsheet or some other program automatically did some smoothing or interpolation. It's not because somebody was driving the car and specifically thinking to himself "I really think this car would drive better if I advanced the timing .3 degrees at x rpm and load cell)"

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74589&stc=1&d=1255566879

 

-- Dynamic ignition advance map is the same

 

-- Fuel: these are almost the same. It kind of looks like two different guys worked on the respective maps. One guy used one smoothing function on stage 1 and the other guy used another smoothing function on stage 2. In a lot of areas the difference between the maps lie in a range of .1 to .3 point of AFR. I would say that, practically speaking, the fuel map is almost unchanged between stage 1 and stage 2.

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74595&stc=1&d=1255568477

 

-- rev limit increased by 100 rpm in stage 2.

 

-- drive by wire throttle duty cycles are the same

 

-- AVCS intake cam advance table is the same between stage 1 and 2, although they both significantly differ from stock in low rpm and low load areas.

 

Without firsthand experience it's hard to say exactly how a stock car would drive on a stage 2 map. But one would expect it to underboost its targets and not feel as pleasant as it would feel with the requisite exhaust modifications. The motor blowage possibilities seem extremely remote, especially given how well the factory PCM can respond to knock and the fact that the fuel tables are practically the same between the two maps.

 

Oh and for reference on how load is calculated:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74596&stc=1&d=1255569461

[rawl2k6]

well if this wasn't a comprehensive response...i don't know what is. thanks man. i guess it's good to know that i won't destroy the car...but i guess if it's not going to make much difference anyway...i should just wait till i have all the parts then reflash to stage 2. but again...thanks...that one was a real schooling for me.

 

Has anyone here ever actually bothered to look at the differences between the 05-06 stage 1 and stage 2 93 octane maps instead of just repeating stuff you read on the internet? There's actually not that great of a difference between stage 1 and stage 2, not compared to how many changes Cobb made from stock to stage 1. They pretty much turned up the peak boost levels and changed the timing for more low and midrange torque.

 

Main differences between stage 1 and 2:

 

-- Boost targets are higher, boost limits are slightly higher as well

 

 

-- Wastegate duty cycles are higher

 

 

-- Turbo dynamics gain values are the same

 

-- Primary ignition table: the best way to describe this is that the Stage 2 timing progression is "flatter" if you are looking down the load columns. It hits more advance at low rpm and then progresses at a slower rate depending on which region of the map you are looking at. You can tell they used a different smoothing process on this map. Any time you see a random cell change by a small random number, it's because a spreadsheet or some other program automatically did some smoothing or interpolation. It's not because somebody was driving the car and specifically thinking to himself "I really think this car would drive better if I advanced the timing .3 degrees at x rpm and load cell)"

 

 

-- Dynamic ignition advance map is the same

 

-- Fuel: these are almost the same. It kind of looks like two different guys worked on the respective maps. One guy used one smoothing function on stage 1 and the other guy used another smoothing function on stage 2. In a lot of areas the difference between the maps lie in a range of .1 to .3 point of AFR. I would say that, practically speaking, the fuel map is almost unchanged between stage 1 and stage 2.

 

 

-- rev limit increased by 100 rpm in stage 2.

 

-- drive by wire throttle duty cycles are the same

 

-- AVCS intake cam advance table is the same between stage 1 and 2, although they both significantly differ from stock in low rpm and low load areas.

 

Without firsthand experience it's hard to say exactly how a stock car would drive on a stage 2 map. But one would expect it to underboost its targets and not feel as pleasant as it would feel with the requisite exhaust modifications. The motor blowage possibilities seem extremely remote, especially given how well the factory PCM can respond to knock and the fact that the fuel tables are practically the same between the two maps.

 

Oh and for reference on how load is calculated:

 

[pattypat]

With my TA map which is considered a Stage 1 I'm hitting 16.5 psi and occasionally 16.8-17.0. I am only running a CBE and panel filter, with Cobb's peak boost for stage 2 at 16.5 wouldn't my map be considered stage 2 or just a better tune?

[Boostin1657615274]

^ Throw the "stage" system out the window for now. It often adds to confusion.

 

Is there any way you can post the map (it's an AP map right), or is it locked? They may have simply chosen higher boost targets, higher wastegate duty cycles, or different turbo dynamics gains. Unless there are obvious safety or reliability problems with the map, to say that's a "better" or "worse" tune depends on your goals.

[lil_z_33]

i got perrin UP, and perrin 2pc catted DP...zero issues whatsoever...

[rawl2k6]

i got perrin UP, and perrin 2pc catted DP...zero issues whatsoever...

 

so here's the next question. how much difference does the up pipe make?

[wpgspecb]

so here's the next question. how much difference does the up pipe make?

 

on your car(2008), nothing. on his car(2006) quite a bit.

[rawl2k6]

on your car(2008), nothing. on his car(2006) quite a bit.

 

thanks. cool cause that's one more expense i don't have to deal with.

[fonts]

so here's the next question. how much difference does the up pipe make?

 

07+ already have catless UP so you don't need to replace the stocker.

 

05-06 have catted UP and run the risk of a cat breaking up and getting sucked into the turbo.

[rawl2k6]

07+ already have catless UP so you don't need to replace the stocker.

 

05-06 have catted UP and run the risk of a cat breaking up and getting sucked into the turbo.

 

ok cool. got it. thanks

[fonts]

ok cool. got it. thanks

 

[robinlsb]

Has anyone here ever actually bothered to look at the differences between the 05-06 stage 1 and stage 2 93 octane maps instead of just repeating stuff you read on the internet? There's actually not that great of a difference between stage 1 and stage 2, not compared to how many changes Cobb made from stock to stage 1. They pretty much turned up the peak boost levels and changed the timing for more low and midrange torque.

 

Yeah, you are absolutely right! That is why no one ever has their engine dyno tuned. Because there is not a "big" difference.

[GULLABLE0NE]

im running a stage 1 tune w/ stage 2 parts.

-an avo panel filter, perrin tmic, invidia catted DP, and a stage 1 ots 91 octane map.

 

while driving on a stage 2 map was fun it just doesn't feel very comfy in traffic, which is where i spend a lot of time. after installing the tmic & dp stage 1 is a little laggy at low rpms but who needs boost in traffic anyway? i feel restricted by the stock exhaust and intend on going 3" to the tips. definitely look into a new tmic or jb welds (?) on your stock tmic or you will risk blowing your stock tmic. no up-pipe needed for 08s.

[rawl2k6]

im running a stage 1 tune w/ stage 2 parts.

-an avo panel filter, perrin tmic, invidia catted DP, and a stage 1 ots 91 octane map.

 

while driving on a stage 2 map was fun it just doesn't feel very comfy in traffic, which is where i spend a lot of time. after installing the tmic & dp stage 1 is a little laggy at low rpms but who needs boost in traffic anyway? i feel restricted by the stock exhaust and intend on going 3" to the tips. definitely look into a new tmic or jb welds (?) on your stock tmic or you will risk blowing your stock tmic. no up-pipe needed for 08s.

 

ok cool. i plan on getting an exhaust myself. but i gotta wait a little bit to get the dp anyways cause something came up so i have to reroute my finances. but that just gives me more time to do the research. so thanks for your help...good to know all these things.

[Boostin1657615274]

Yeah, you are absolutely right! That is why no one ever has their engine dyno tuned. Because there is not a "big" difference.

 

...?