Jump to content
LegacyGT.com

Wonder how this BMW race would turn out?

Harry_Merkin

Recommended Posts

Harry_Merkin Apprentice

Harry_Merkin

Posted
Posted

Although I've never driven these cars, I would be very interested to see how these would fare in a three way match-up in the quarter mile and autocross track- If anyone has any experience comparing these cars, how do you think they would fare against the LGT configuration below?

 

My impression is that the LGT would hold at the lower speeds and handle at least as good as the others, but would be out-HP at the top end without a good tune and a fuel pump and injectors and perhaps a FMIC.

 

BMW M3 Series- assume stock 2006 (from Edmunds) The BMW M3 is propelled by a potent 3.2-liter, six-cylinder engine rated at 333 horsepower and 262 pound-feet of torque. A six-speed manual transmission is standard, while a six-speed sequential manual gearbox (SMG) is offered as an option.

 

BMW i135- assume stock 2008 (from Edmunds) The rear-wheel-drive 2008 BMW 135i is powered by the same twin-turbocharged six-cylinder found in the larger 335i, yet because of its lighter curb weight, the 135i slightly out-accelerates its larger sibling from zero to 60 mph in a tidy 5.0 seconds. The 335i essentially equals that. Producing 300 horsepower and 300 pound-feet of torque, this 3.0-liter inline-6 spreads its ample thrust across a broad range,

 

05-06 Legacy GT Ltd

Assumptions:

Legacy runs Stage 2 Cobb, ACT Street, LWFW, UP, DP, EL Header, Blitz panel filter, AVO TMIC, VF40 (or VF52 w/stock injectors), AVO mid and Y pipes, stock cans, Brakes- DBA 4000, ss lines, and hawk pads or stock rims with Bridgestone 960's.

 

Legacy Suspension: Bilstein HD/pinks, f&r sway, endlinks, cusco underbody bracing, AVO offset LCA bushings, Whiteline Roll Ctr Kit,

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rao Grand Master

rao

Posted
Posted

for the 1/4 mile

 

A current M3? It will kill the Legacy

The 135 will be a decent race, but the 1 series should win.

 

As for autocross, it depends on how angry the cones are :lol: too many variables, but even though the Legacy is the King of Cars, it will likely get beat in the parking lot as well.

 

This should be fun :munch:

Rob

 

 

 

IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT

Link to comment
Share on other sites
05GT Guru Grand Master

05GT Guru

Posted
Posted
Are doing stock vs stock, cause the legacy will lose to both in that form in both the 1/4mile and road course. The new m3 doesnt really need to be put up against a legacy unless that legacy has a good 330-350whp and waaaaaaaaaaaaay better brakes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Harry_Merkin Apprentice

Harry_Merkin

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Are doing stock vs stock, cause the legacy will lose to both in that form in both the 1/4mile and road course. The new m3 doesnt really need to be put up against a legacy unless that legacy has a good 330-350whp and waaaaaaaaaaaaay better brakes.

 

Legacy modified- see above.

 

BMW's are stock- see above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Penguin Grand Master

Penguin

Posted
Posted
I'm thinking the 2006 6 cyl M3... It could be a reasonable battle....

 

Nope. You'd get raped. The E46 M3 is not a car to be trifled with lightly, it will easily out handle a modded LGT and at any speed over 50mph will simply leave you in the dust even at stage 2.

 

You might have a change vs. a stock 135i but all the 135i driver needs to give your stage 2 LGT a similar ass raping as the M3 would dish out is a Dinan reflash for $1200 and then you're up against a solid 380hp, 420lb-ft car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
05GT Guru Grand Master

05GT Guru

Posted
Posted
Well a e46 only dynos around 260-270whp, so with all the legacys mods, especially with a vf52 you could put down 270-290whp. So in a straight line the legacy would be a somewhat close race, but in the handling and braking even with dba rotors the m3 will out stop and handle the legacy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JSK05LGT Enthusiast

JSK05LGT

Posted
Posted
My LGT is putting down 326whp and 338wtq, full suspension and brake upgrades (Brembos on all 4 corners) and my friends 08 M3 (V8) rocks my LGT. I hate to admit it, but our LGT's were not build to compete with the likes of our German friends.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
biz77 Proficient

biz77

Posted
Posted

I have the opposite experience of what everyone is posting with an E46 SMG M3. Up to about 80-90 mph it is pretty even. From a dead stop it is instantly a 1 car jump at the top of first in the Legacy. Again, he can't reel me in until almost 100mph and then it isn't like he goes whizzing by. It's more of a leisurely stroll past me putting his back bumper to my front bumper by about 115.

 

Against the same M3 in my old stage II STi (which may give you an idea of how a VF52-powered LGT would fare) it wasn't much of a race. We never pushed much past 100, but even at those higher speeds I could still pull away from him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
biz77 Proficient

biz77

Posted
Posted
Hmmm...how about a stage 2 sti up against a 09 m3?

 

Haven't seen one (New M3) run at the local track yet. I'm at 2,300 ft. above sea level and it seems to have a noticeable effect on N/A cars. My stage II STi ran 12.6X's@108 on 92 octane and 12.3's@110 on 100 octane. Based on what stock C6 Corvettes run here I would be led to believe that the 414hp M3 and my old stage II STi would have been a decent match from a dead stop. I'm sure the new M3 would have a much higher trap speed at the end of 1/4 mile compared to my STi.

 

A co-worker's husband just picked up a 2008 M3 6MT. Perhaps I can get him to come out to the track.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TPLGT Grand Master

TPLGT

Posted
Posted
Haven't seen one (New M3) run at the local track yet. I'm at 2,300 ft. above sea level and it seems to have a noticeable effect on N/A cars. My stage II STi ran 12.6X's@108 on 92 octane and 12.3's@110 on 100 octane. Based on what stock C6 Corvettes run here I would be led to believe that the 414hp M3 and my old stage II STi would have been a decent match from a dead stop. I'm sure the new M3 would have a much higher trap speed at the end of 1/4 mile compared to my STi.

 

Nice....I bet the Stage II STIs pull like no tomorrow. nice numbers you put up..

 

A co-worker's husband just picked up a 2008 M3 6MT. Perhaps I can get him to come out to the track.

Rehab is for quitters.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Xenonk Grand Master

Xenonk

Posted
Posted
Although I've never driven these cars, I would be very interested to see how these would fare in a three way match-up in the quarter mile and autocross track- If anyone has any experience comparing these cars, how do you think they would fare against the LGT configuration below?

 

My impression is that the LGT would hold at the lower speeds and handle at least as good as the others, but would be out-HP at the top end without a good tune and a fuel pump and injectors and perhaps a FMIC.

 

BMW M3 Series- assume stock 2006 (from Edmunds) The BMW M3 is propelled by a potent 3.2-liter, six-cylinder engine rated at 333 horsepower and 262 pound-feet of torque. A six-speed manual transmission is standard, while a six-speed sequential manual gearbox (SMG) is offered as an option.

 

BMW i135- assume stock 2008 (from Edmunds) The rear-wheel-drive 2008 BMW 135i is powered by the same twin-turbocharged six-cylinder found in the larger 335i, yet because of its lighter curb weight, the 135i slightly out-accelerates its larger sibling from zero to 60 mph in a tidy 5.0 seconds. The 335i essentially equals that. Producing 300 horsepower and 300 pound-feet of torque, this 3.0-liter inline-6 spreads its ample thrust across a broad range,

 

05-06 Legacy GT Ltd

Assumptions:

Legacy runs Stage 2 Cobb, ACT Street, LWFW, UP, DP, EL Header, Blitz panel filter, AVO TMIC, VF40 (or VF52 w/stock injectors), AVO mid and Y pipes, stock cans, Brakes- DBA 4000, ss lines, and hawk pads or stock rims with Bridgestone 960's.

 

Legacy Suspension: Bilstein HD/pinks, f&r sway, endlinks, cusco underbody bracing, AVO offset LCA bushings, Whiteline Roll Ctr Kit,

 

 

Legacy even in stage two just ends up getting it's butt handed over and over again because the LSDs just dont do enough work to help it get it around... BMWs (both you stated) will walk over the GT.

 

I know, I've raced with them, against them, instruct in them as well. Our race team also had the 1st 135i at One Lap of America back in 2008 and looking at the results of the car, I can safely say that you need to do more than the mods you listed for the GT in order to not only beat, but to just to keep up.

 

Btw, with those suspension mods you listed, there's is DEFINITELY no way it will keep up, especially with the crappy stock tires. It's a sure lose no matter what. At least BMW comes with Michelin performance summer tires that will crush the all-seasons on the GT.

 

Let's put it this way, my old E30 BMW 1989 325is (read "non M") can put a punishment in an autox against my GT. My GT needs race-compound slicks and better diffs just to keep up in autocrossing. The only thing that the GT has it going for it compared to my 160 whp E30 is that it has 40 more hp but it's carrying well over 800 lbs more weight. Adding more power (like stage 2) on the GT will only give it the edge of more top speed down the straights. Simply put: The GTs AWD system isn't designed for road-track performance. It was for every-day mundane daily drivers that prevents the car from neutral steer its way through the turns. There are ways to provoke a drift out of it, but it's not based on throttle-on which racing is all about.

 

This comparison is actually a no-brainer once you know what it takes to autocross, drag and drive track. I guess this question/comparison is that you are trying to live this comparison vicariously through guys like me?

Keefe
Link to comment
Share on other sites
05GT Guru Grand Master

05GT Guru

Posted
Posted
I have the opposite experience of what everyone is posting with an E46 SMG M3. Up to about 80-90 mph it is pretty even. From a dead stop it is instantly a 1 car jump at the top of first in the Legacy. Again, he can't reel me in until almost 100mph and then it isn't like he goes whizzing by. It's more of a leisurely stroll past me putting his back bumper to my front bumper by about 115.

 

Against the same M3 in my old stage II STi (which may give you an idea of how a VF52-powered LGT would fare) it wasn't much of a race. We never pushed much past 100, but even at those higher speeds I could still pull away from him.

 

At see level a e46 can do mid 13s in the 1/4mile no stock legacy can, thats about where most stage 2 5mt legacys are. I have seen auto m3s pull off 13.7s

Link to comment
Share on other sites
biz77 Proficient

biz77

Posted
Posted
At see level a e46 can do mid 13s in the 1/4mile no stock legacy can, thats about where most stage 2 5mt legacys are. I have seen auto m3s pull off 13.7s

 

Here an E46 M3 is a low 14-second car. I've seen a couple scratch into the 13's @ 101-102mph. My Stage I LGT running E85 ran 13.6's@99mph. I haven't made it back out to the track since the addition of new UP and DP, but based on MAF, road dyno numbers etc. I would guess that my car is likely capable of low 13's now.

 

Nonetheless, even at sea level, a stage II LGT should be a good match for a stock E46 M3. I don't know why anyone would think that an E46 M3 would decimate the stage II LGT in a straight line. Just because it is a ZOMG M doesn't mean it's a straight-line demon. These cars were meant for turns, not stoplight show downs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use

  I accept