Ridgeracer Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I'm betting they will do an exterior re-fresh in 2012. Or maybe even in 2011 if the sales targets haven't been realized. We'll just have to wait and see. Ditto....Case in point..09 WRX vs 08 WRX...alot of difference one year makes..i'll till then. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 But, could they have saved face by making the 08 correctly in the beginning... And likewise could they have done even better by improving the things they still haven't fixed, like Impreza's styling and option lists... If they have to botch things to then fix a little bit... they are still behind the curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttlejockey Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Well, they should read the forums. I'm on my 4th Subaru since 2002. I can say I won't be buying another one unless they redesign the 2010 Aztek-mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 But, could they have saved face by making the 08 correctly in the beginning... And likewise could they have done even better by improving the things they still haven't fixed, like Impreza's styling and option lists... If they have to botch things to then fix a little bit... they are still behind the curve. Learn from history : The Tribeca got slated for being ugly ~ they changed it The '08 Impreza got slated for being bland ~ they changed it The '10 Legacy has been slated as being ugly ~ they will change it. I just can't understand why they can't get it right first time. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I just can't understand why they can't get it right first time. Ditto. I can't believe that anyone at Subaru could've looked at the 2010 model and honestly said, "Yeah, that's an improvement over the styling of the 2009!" The nose alone just looks so awkward and distorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_volta Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Because Camrys are built on the same line. That cuts down on the cost of tooling if both cars were very similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecBGuy Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 SOA has better things to do then to listen to people on this forum on how to design a car.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 SOA has better things to do then to listen to people on this forum on how to design a car.. Like listen to the people on the Camry forums ? Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05pearl Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Subaru needs to take a hint from these guys and make a lightweight awd two seat roadster with the turbo 2.5. http://www.murtaya.com/CarInformation.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Does SOA read the forums? you would probably be better served by writing a letter. it would seem that the answer to your question is yes, but they would like you to take it up w/ someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 But, could they have saved face by making the 08 correctly in the beginning... And likewise could they have done even better by improving the things they still haven't fixed, like Impreza's styling and option lists... If they have to botch things to then fix a little bit... they are still behind the curve. My sentiments exactly...Unfortunately they waited until the core customers and enthusiasts for the WRX gravitated towards a more compelling option at the time...i.e. MazdaSpeed 3. Between money talking and Automags pretty much saying you lost your edge and your car sucks alot can change in a year at SOA marketing.... Now what will the core customer choose instead of this car..?? Within the same price of course..BTW I purposely left ppl like us out since we pretty much agree that we would pay more for a better Legacy.. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 That depends on what you mean by core customer. The non-enthusiasts might not be so adverse to the car, but Acura has more features and just as ugly. Honda Accord and Toyota Camry have better, more well known reputations. Malibu and Fusion have the patriotism and "support the car industry" stuff... that some might fall for, and Fusion does offer haldex, as does Volvo. Some might go for Mazda 6... it isn't quite as ugly, but is still a bit bloated, and a bit more obscure than the main players. The value enthusiasts looking for an affordable performance sedan are in more of a pickle. A deeply discounted Saab 9^3 turbo, a Volvo S60-R, perhaps.. One of the remaining Pontiac G8 GTs... overlooking the size, the engine and performance are healthy, and it doesn't look bad. I have a feeling most will go toward G37 and Audi A4, perhaps 1-2 years used, if the new ones are slightly out of reach. Maybe Fusion 3.5 Sport AWD... It used to be, for AWD+manual gearbox+good power level, Legacy GT was it. Technically it still meets those criteria, but just looking at the car, the price, and the features/options lists, they have made it much harder to pull that trigger than it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Malibu and Fusion have the patriotism and "support the car industry" stuff... that some might fall for, and Fusion does offer haldex, as does Volvo. The Fusion is built in Mexico, which pisses me off. That's the main reason I didn't consider it. We need to keep manufacturing alive in the United States. As for the Malibu, I find it to be rather ugly, but I wouldn't buy a GM car anymore anyway. It's bad enough that I'm forced to support GM involuntarily in the form of taxpayer subsidies. And I'm disappointed in GM's handling of Saturn. Back when it was an independent subsidiary, it actually had potential. I miss my Spring Hill built, dent resistant plastic bodied SL2! I put 220,000 miles on my '97 Saturn, and thanks partly to the plastic body panels, it still looked good even when the mechanicals started to go! But like I said, no more GM for me. A deeply discounted Saab 9^3 turbo, a Volvo S60-R, perhaps.. I like the Volvo S40, but would be less likely to consider Volvo if Ford indeed does sell the company to the Chinese. I have a feeling most will go toward G37 and Audi A4, perhaps 1-2 years used, if the new ones are slightly out of reach. Maybe Fusion 3.5 Sport AWD... I wish I could get the A4 without that godawful oversized grille. I think it looks hideous. But I probably would choose a BMW 328xi if I were looking in that price range! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'm not too found of the maintenance expense and reliability of Volvo, Saab, BMW, and Audi....unless someone has proven this otherwise?? Another note on the '10 Legacy is that I believe that Subaru Legacy loyalist (non enthusiast) will continue to buy the 2.5i. I think it compares fairly well to the competition vs the GT. Did the 2.5i lose as many options as the GT with the new model?? "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'm not too found of the maintenance expense and reliability of Volvo, Saab, BMW, and Audi....unless someone has proven this otherwise?? Another note on the '10 Legacy is that I believe that Subaru Legacy loyalist (non enthusiast) will continue to buy to 2.5i. I think it compares fairly well to the competition vs the GT. Did the 2.5i lose as many options as the GT with the new model?? It is hard to tell... perhaps not, just solely on the fact that the 2.5i didn't have as long of a standard options list as the 09 GT did in the first place, and thus had less distance to fall, on the options comparison. I think the 2.5i buyers you describe, that are subaru brand loyal, but not an enthusiast (I am not sure that people are Legacy loyalists as much as they are loyal to Subaru, as a brand, while not being performance enthusiasts...) will continue to consider the 2.5i. GT buyers are tricky, because the BL Legacy GT was a bit of an enthusiast-grade car. But I do think they are trying to actively shunt those buyers to Legacy 3.6R, most notably by the GT's options list, less standard features than before, and most importantly, denial of an automatic gearbox on the GT... when most US buyers buy autos, not manuals. Honestly, if Subaru had pulled an Audi, and refined their car positively, while the car gets more spacious... The A4 grew, but looks at least as good as it ever has... Subaru could have done that with the Legacy, rather than changing direction, and beating the car with an ugly stick. In a parallel dimension, where the choice spawned both options... SOA listening to us, vs. SOA doing what they have done to the '10. In that alternate dimension, the '10 Legacy had stuck to the good design aspects and features of the BL Legacy, and even slightly improved... The car remained attractive to look at, and as well equipped, plus a few new details. They merely increased the interior width by just a bit, increased the length inside the wheelbase, but kept the exterior dimensions as trim as possible, and kept the height fairly low and sleek, and kept the bodywork dignified... Being myself in that other dimension, I would like that car, first off... and be excited about it. I would probably have a bit of dilemma between the H6 and Turbo 4, when getting to the point of updating my BL Legacy. A point that will never happen in this dimension... My BL will not likely be replaced by another Legacy. I might even forgive the loss of the turbo4 from the Legacy line, (which may happen later, in this dimension anyway) if the 3.6 H6 were offered with the 2009 Spec B/STI 6MT gearbox, or strengthened 5 or 6-speed VTD Automatic, Bilsteins, Subaru monoblock brakes or black brembos, and lower ride height, and a few sport-package appearance details. Again, this is on the premise of an actually fundamentally attractive '10 Legacy. That stuff might not be able to overcome the ugly of the actually real '10 Legacy... but it couldn't hurt. :shrug: With the strong gearboxes, the 3.6 should be able to be tuned for 300+ horsepower, as it sounds as if that engine leaves some power on the table, so not to blow 5EATs under warranty. The JDM-supplied markets, outside of NorAm, have had the BL-Legacy 3.0R Spec B, which is essentially that package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 2.5i lost some price unlike GT that gained a few grands. It may help even if it lost any features. Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'm not too found of the maintenance expense and reliability of Volvo, Saab, BMW, and Audi....unless someone has proven this otherwise?? Another note on the '10 Legacy is that I believe that Subaru Legacy loyalist (non enthusiast) will continue to buy to 2.5i. I think it compares fairly well to the competition vs the GT. Did the 2.5i lose as many options as the GT with the new model?? As a 2.5i owner, I can say that it has lost several things I liked: the temp gauge on the dash, the normal parking brake handle, the folding mirrors, the twin tailpipes, and probably a few other things in the name of cost cutting. Also, I don't trust CVT's, so now the only model I'd consider is the 3.6 with the 5EAT. But the appearance alone would keep me from considering the 2010 model anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Honestly, if Subaru had pulled an Audi, and refined their car positively, while the car gets more spacious... The A4 grew, but looks at least as good as it ever has... Except for that awful oversized grille that looks like a cancerous growth on the car! I loved the A4 before Audi started using that stupid grille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Of course, Subaru would use their own corporate styling cues, rather than using Audi cues. I am talking intrinsically, and strategically, not being an outright copycat of Audi's designs. Personally, the Audi grille doesn't bother me that much... and if it did, I would just paint or wrap the bumper beam section in the body's paint color... instant two-grilles, with a common chrome perimeter. Even the 2005-era A4s looked like that, with the upper and lower grilles being complimentary, without being unified. Audi has a sense of building and improving on core competencies, and making incremental improvements, and styling the right way first, and then only improving it. Something Subaru still has yet to learn. A4 from 2004, 2006 refresh, (including a sportec tuned wagon, with a grey bumper bar, and blacked-out surround...), 2008, and now the 2010 A5 sportback, which the US won't be getting. :mad::mad::mad: http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/04.luxury.under.45K/04.audi.a4.500.jpg http://www.lgautorepair.com/a4.jpg http://www.audituningmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/sportec-audi-a4-rs300-1.jpg http://www.yosax.com/wp-content/uploads/2008-audi-a4-17.jpg http://www.audisite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Audi_A5_Sportback.jpg http://www.audisite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Audi_A5_Sportback-4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 http://www.lgautorepair.com/a4.jpg That is a really nice looking car, except for the stupid grille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Put the Sportec wagon's grille on it... or paint the license plate/bumper bar the same gray as the paint job... good to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viber Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Then again, the "sheets" ad posted on youtube where they stretched the image of the car to make it look sleeker, and smoothed out the wheel well arches a little, makes you wonder! Now, if only they could do that to the actual car! The fact that they tweaked the look in advertising is incredibly telling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyalla Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 +1 ^^ It is a nice looking car on that A4. I would paint the black bumper in the middle of the grill to match the body paint. If only fixing the 2010 Legacy were that easy lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Honestly I think the EVO 10 pulled off the whole large front grill thing the best. The two tone look is sick.. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Of course, Subaru would use their own corporate styling cues, rather than using Audi cues. I am talking intrinsically, and strategically, not being an outright copycat of Audi's designs. Personally, the Audi grille doesn't bother me that much... and if it did, I would just paint or wrap the bumper beam section in the body's paint color... instant two-grilles, with a common chrome perimeter. Even the 2005-era A4s looked like that, with the upper and lower grilles being complimentary, without being unified. Audi has a sense of building and improving on core competencies, and making incremental improvements, and styling the right way first, and then only improving it. Something Subaru still has yet to learn. A4 from 2004, 2006 refresh, (including a sportec tuned wagon, with a grey bumper bar, and blacked-out surround...), 2008, and now the 2010 A5 sportback, which the US won't be getting. :mad::mad::mad: http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/04.luxury.under.45K/04.audi.a4.500.jpg http://www.lgautorepair.com/a4.jpg http://www.gotbroken.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/2006-audi-a4-rs300-by-sportec-front-angle-view-588x391.jpg http://www.yosax.com/wp-content/uploads/2008-audi-a4-17.jpg http://www.gotbroken.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2010-Audi-A5-Sportback-Front-Angle-Picture-588x415.jpg http://www.gotbroken.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2010-Audi-A5-Sportback-Rear-Angle-Picture-588x415.jpg Subaru is not the only guilty Nippon brand that has an identity crisis... "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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