Not Naturally Aspirated Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Has anyone done a swap from manual to auto (yes the other way:redface:) on a LGT? Is so, who and would there happen to be a thread regarding this with details? I don't care to get flamed on this (for those who may be tempted, with all due respect), I just want to look at the "cost-effectiveness" vs trading in for an auto tranny. I want a second opinion since I was told it would be too difficult. I have too much time into my LGT to undo what has been done to it just to go through the trouble (& haggling) of trading it in for another. Anyhow, bottom line, does anyone know if is it reliably doable, say under 5K? Please to all who has an answer, please let it be empirical:) Thanks MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostsr20 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Buy my car. Much less of a headache... Honestly, as far as cost effectiveness goes, I think buying a new car would be much easier and cheaper. If you can find a used trans it will probably be more than 2K just for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Naturally Aspirated Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 I appreciate your reply. Well, maybe I should have provided more details; the slush box would be a used unit (perhaps a trade, limiting the end cost). My 05 is well preserved with low miles... trade-in, reality is I would loose big though I would be getting new wheels (warranty and all) in exchange... Anyhow, from my viewpoint (abacus in hand), the math from a "$" standpoint on trade-in-to-new would amount to something beyond 10gs... manual to auto swap...??? My question remains, is it doable (degree of difficulty etc), if so, at what cost/expense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atc5 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 absolute waste of money sell your car as is and buy a 5eat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frkkevin Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 or drive to texas and stay a bit.. ill give you my 5EAT for your 5MT.. 512whp/465ftlb 2005 5EAT Legacy (Build Log) Videos - - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Naturally Aspirated Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 ...that IS along the lines of what I had in mind, being that "that" particular part of the swap phase would be hedged on someone (a member such as you) tentatively willing to take part in this; though easier said than done, the tranny exchange is the least of my concern. Anyhow, so far I've received replies simply and briefly stating "...it's not worth it/don't waste ur money etc". At risk of coming across as somewhat antagonistic and/or "beating a dead horse" on this, I haven't received ANY details (as to why/how/how come??) supporting their brief advise, again with all due respect. The facts I know are, my trade-in value sits between 13-14k, & private party is ~15-16k; which actually, believing that some "private party" would be able and willing to part with 15-16k in these times imeo is rather wishful. So, as a result of my negotiated trade-in towards a new vehicle that is equivalent (form & function), let me somewhat confidently reiterate that the $ difference is well above 10 grand! Anyway (blah-blah-blah...), if anyone on here has looked this up and has gone down this supposedly pointless & seemingly impossibly difficult (or not) path, please-please-please pm me and/or chime in and let me know... I trust that there are a good bunch on knowledgeable people within these forum walls that may have empirical data regarding this. I'm also considering farming this task out since I'm time poor, so naturally if someone know who can pull this off, please include the "plug". Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I bet you COULD do it. The swap from auto to manual involves the obvious bits (trans, pedal box, clutch business, driveshaft and rear diff, axles, and interior trim), as well as a few hidden bits. For the AT->MT swap, the TCU needs to be removed and ABS needs to be sorted (since ABS on the automatics ties into the TCU logic). I bet if you had another car, and you could, just swap everything. Everything that the 5EAT car has that your car does not, just swap. Could it be done for under 2k? Definitely not, unless you found someone willing to do a straight trade. Could it be done for under 5k? I bet. It's all about how much time you want to spend. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frkkevin Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I'd be down for a straight trade if you wanted to do the labor haha.. my trans does have the IPT VB tho 512whp/465ftlb 2005 5EAT Legacy (Build Log) Videos - - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Drivetrain is different too on the 5EAT. Center diff is located in the tailshaft and is of a different design and functionality than the one on the MT. The MT has a 50%-50% traction split, while the 5EAT is 44.3% front, 55.7% back. You're basically looking at swapping out almost the entire drivetrain. Starting to see yet why this is not cost-effective? Nobody we know of has gone this route. To do so would only prove you're a stubborn person, because it's not worth the headache and money. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 It is totally cost-effective if someone is willing to do a straight trade (frkkevin, for example). If it's what he wants, it's what he wants. Simply swap the drivetrain stuff that is different between your cars and call it a day. You have to swap out almost the entire drivetrain to do a STi 6MT swap, and those people are generally heralded as "awesome" not "stubborn" I say go for it. But if you do, at least make sure you get paddles. The 5EAT is a pretty neat trans, for one that has a torque converter... [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 ^ I don't think it's cost effective even if someone wants to do a straight trade. There's too much electronically integrated in the car, so unless you really know what you're doing and can handle the work on both sides without a lot of shop hours, it's going to make more sense to just trade the cars instead of trying to swap the transmission. It's not as simple as just pulling the transmission, axles, driveshaft, diffs, etc -- you also have to make the car recognize and behave correctly for the auto, and that means messing with the ECU, the BIU, wiring in the TCU, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btlegacy Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I will come from buying a wrecked car standpoint. You can buy a wrecked 05-06 LGT with drivetrain in good condition in the $2.5k to $4k range. I would take the drivetrain bits from it and swap it onto yours and sell off the rest of the parts to recuperate costs and finally sell the shell for its metal value. 2005 Legacy GT 5MT Buy my stuff Here So I can build my 6.0L V8 Legacy GT Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Naturally Aspirated Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 I apologize in advance for my rather lengthy rebuttal: Stubbornness really goes without saying, since you, and all whom are reading this, have been successfully conceived; that’s why we’re all alive and have made it against ~ 300 million other “tadpoles” that didn’t survive their fateful mission on the promise of conception… Do not underestimate that all living things have stubbornness genetically programmed… too far/too deep? Excuse me, that is my psychoanalytical digression on that particular perspective of stubbornness, alrighty? Please read on… ANYHOW, funneling back to my question and many good points brought forward, I am trying my best to understand with all pragmatic assumptions considered; if some members of this great forum (and others) have specifically done a LGT swap from auto to manual, what makes the reverse of this task so impractically different and/or not feasible? I understand that the BOM (bill of material) to an auto swap is greater than that of the reverse course… but basic conventional wisdom makes me go “huh?” Again however, bear in mind as I’ve mentioned I’m time poor so I would farm this task (err… project ) out to competent hands… Again said another way, can it be done reliably (100%) for $10 grand?… Less than $10grand??… If so, how much less would you reckon?? Finding a wreck and doing the swap was my original objective when I first inquired about this with my local tuner, so snagging a wreck is seemingly a great cost effective plan of attack to start with. …why am I considering going through this trouble… 1- family (primarily), 2- personal… and yes to actually follow through, if you must have the pleasure to “toot your horn” 3- stubbornness ;-) yet one could argue (should I wish to toss you all a fishbone) by virtue of presenting this in an open forum and allowing me, and all who care, to sensibly look at ALL sides and decide whether to “go/no-go” with this project… does that still make me mmmm, stubborn (rhetorical)? Finally, I promise to refrain from my (what could be perceived as) psycho analytical rhetoric sprinkled with condescension ;-) if we can all leave out character judgments…. I know I know… it’s difficult, but politely I ask you all that replies/response stays in focus with the proposed task in this thread, deal?… si, yes, oui, ya, da….??? Guys/Gals thanks for all your time and input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 ^ I don't think it's cost effective even if someone wants to do a straight trade. There's too much electronically integrated in the car, so unless you really know what you're doing and can handle the work on both sides without a lot of shop hours, it's going to make more sense to just trade the cars instead of trying to swap the transmission. It's not as simple as just pulling the transmission, axles, driveshaft, diffs, etc -- you also have to make the car recognize and behave correctly for the auto, and that means messing with the ECU, the BIU, wiring in the TCU, etc. No, still not that hard. Just swap complete harneses. You WILL have to pull the car apart, but it CAN be done. If you don't have the time, it's not going to be cheap. If you do it yourself with a willing trade partner, it would definitely be worth it (if you REALLY wanted a 5EAT). [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Naturally Aspirated Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hmm, swapping harnesses? I'll need to confirm in my FSM but would it not be that the harness is physically/electrically identical, for say both models (5EAT & 5MT), and just provisioned via pin programming and/or active blackbox addresses (when the CANBUS interrogates to see "who's there") to determine the existing drivetrain configuration? I do hear you... it will be relatively expensive should I choose NOT to go at this myself... hence, that is why I'm contemplating possible alternatives, but rather I was hoping that someone here had tackled this before. The timing is not that good for us to trade-in my LGT for a new one since we stand to take a large loss. I really like my LGT other than the wife can't comfortably/safely drive it with our newborn as passenger Anyhow, thanks for the participative replies... and NO, I would rather not have to do this and so I do prefer the 5MT, but compromise is in the air... for the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I don't know of ANY MT -> AT swaps. Well, I lied, I know of a few I've seen and heard about on nasioc. I bet you could get some info over there. The other option is to buy a 5EAT LGT of the same year you have, swap all your stuff over, and then sell your car as stock. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Opie, when you think about it, you can do just about anything given enough stubborness. You could even mold yourself a new EJ255 block out of titanium. The fact of the matter is the route of selling the car and buying a 5EAT is more cost effective, safer and easier than a swap. We're all pretty much assuming the swap will go flawless but that's never a guarantee, especially since some LGTs have been known to have electrical gremlins. But by all acounts I wish you Godspeed because I, for one, am curious of the outcome of such a swap. To spend several grand for this only in the end to break even or even lose money compared to a sale/buy to me makes zero sense, unless the car has some special emotional meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfdrumr Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 If you have a wagon ill be a straight trade for cars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkOblivion000 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 unless the car has some special emotional meaning. Some sentimental experiences in the backseat perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Precisely what I had in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkOblivion000 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 ^^^ Hey my '95 Corolla is still sitting in my backyard for just that reason... No j/k, actually it's because I"ve been too lazy to fill out the form to get it donated and now the battery's dead... But I did have some nice memories in there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pdizzleccc Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 if you are going to swap trannys just swap the cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_pang2 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 8 months late. but I did the same exact thing but to a 03 accord though. Anyway, he goes. this took me approximately 2 months to do mainly due to waiting for parts which i didn't know i needed but if i knew what I needed it would have taken me maybe a week. Off the top of me head of parts that i needed: ecu, engine harness, dash harness, shift console, shift cable, new front axles for an automatic, new hubs for an automatic, flex plate and of course the shitbox. After this, you can ditch the clutch pedal and decide if you want to keep the brake pedal or swap it out for one that is made for an automatic. after all this you still need to bring it to the dealer for pair the keys to the ECU. I tried using the manual ECU but the car wouldn't move in gear. Car started but wouldn't move. This cost me approximately $1200 in parts not including labor for pairing of the key and pressing out the hubs for an automatic one. The Subaru Legacy may or may not need all the parts i posted up like axles, hubs but you deff. need the rest of the parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I hate to ask a couple of very obvious questions... Can't you just find someone with a 05 5MT that wants a 05 5EAT and swap ENTIRE cars? Even if it was not the color you wanted, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to swap interiors and repaint? Wouldn't it be less work/easier to sell your car and pony up the 500-1000 you may pay as a premium for another used car? Why do you have to trade in your car for a NEW one? I don't get that at all... Maybe I have totally lost the point but I find it totally interesting and entertaining that you are going after a MT to EAT swap. +10 for being different and going after what you want your way LaLGT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_pang2 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yes it would be extremely easier for you to just sell it and buy another one but in todays economy, I don't think that is a smart choice unless you have a extremely reliable source of income and not being threatened with being laid. I'm sure there are other variables that comes into play with his decision. I knew the history of the Accord. 130K on the shell but approx 15K on the motor and knowing that I was the first owner. I bought the Accord 5mt new sold the car for cheap to my sister for cheap in 05-06, then bought the 05 Legacy GT, then I rebought the 03 Accord for cheap as well with a bad throw-out bearing issue. That was when I decided to swap to the shitbox plus I'm a fairly newlywed and My wife needed a car that she could drive so thats what i decided. It took my approximately 6+ months to sell a car but that was before the economy took a hit and lucky for me I sold the car. This was a 95 civic Hatch and I didn't want to deal with it getting stolen or broken into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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