Opinions on dealer trans and differential lube services

[TimGinCentralNJ]

At 65k, I know I'm overdue for my trans fluid and F/R diff oil to be changed, but in looking at my dealer's service "menu", they apparently use a BG Flush machine for doing each of these and charge about $100 each to do them! So I'm looking at over $300 just for fluid changes?!!

 

Is my dealer the only one who does this? Anyone have any other reputable auto service chains I could trust doing this on my Subie?

 

I used to do all my oil and fluid changes myself, but between not having any "me" time (2 kids under 2 years old) and the hassle of having to find a place to dispose of the old fluids...it just doesn't make sense for me to do it anymore.

 

Thanks,

Tim

[RaGe]

300 bucks for something that you can do in about 30 minutes just doesnt add up to me. but i understand if you dont have time. if you are ok paying someone 300 bucks to perform something small like this, then have at it.

[__raj]

The interesting thing is according to the manual maintenance manual you are not overdue for anything. The only recommendation is to inspect the fluid not replace it.

 

Dealers like to interpret that as change it. Mine is crazy, they tend to recommend change some of those fluids out in a 15k interval.

 

Do you any trusty independents in your area, they are typically very consistent. Chains can be wonderful or nightmares but the problem is any consistency. It all depends who works on your car.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

300 bucks for something that you can do in about 30 minutes just doesnt add up to me. but i understand if you dont have time. if you are ok paying someone 300 bucks to perform something small like this, then have at it.

 

Hey Rage-

 

 

Thanks for your comments. Just to recap, you feel that:

1. $300 is way out of line
   
2. You've never heard of a dealer using a BG Flush machine for these services, so my dealer may be a wing nut
   
3. You don't have any suggestions on a reliable and more reasonable place to have these done
   
4. You may have missed the reason why I posted this is actually because I'm not ok paying someone 300 bucks to perform this
   

How'd I do? Sorry, man....couldn't resist....heh heh

 

Thanks,

Tim

[RaGe]

to me yes, but i am a tightwad.

 

2) i dont believe in performing a flush. i have heard bad things about doing that and the affects it can have on your seals.

 

3) no i sure dont man i am sorry. Maybe seeing if a mini meet is feasable? i am sure someone out there likes turning wrenches like myself. I have a T-70 and have done this a couple of times.

 

4). nah i seen the reason why. hell between me and my current wife we have 4 kids. but i do all of my work to my car and no dealer is going to touch my car. everytime you take it there they fuk something up. either they back into something and scratch it, take it for a test drive doing 120, or they break something, do something you asked them not too. people dont care about your car. thats why i do all of my work. i cant afford for it to break, so i take care of it myself. been doing just fine with 84k on the odo and i am a full stage II with an aftermarket TMIC.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

The interesting thing is according to the manual maintenance manual you are not overdue for anything. The only recommendation is to inspect the fluid not replace it.

 

Dealers like to interpret that as change it. Mine is crazy, they tend to recommend change some of those fluids out in a 15k interval.

 

Do you any trusty independents in your area, they are typically very consistent. Chains can be wonderful or nightmares but the problem is any consistency. It all depends who works on your car.

 

Hey Raj-

 

Appreciate your feedback. Good to know I haven't run over on these maintenance items. I've always been extremely "anal" about taking care of my cars--especially maintaintenance, but like I said before, since having little ones, my personal time and money are both things of the past!

 

About finding an indy, I haven't "weaned of" my dealer yet--partially because aside from dropping the big coin to do the big ticket maintenance visits, I haven't had much I've needed done to my car. The second this thing becomes more problematic (which I hope it doesn't...god help me), I'll immediately start looking around for a reliable Subaru-knowledgeable indy.

 

At the risk of making a generalization, I totally agree about many/most of the chains being unreliable--at least in my area. A good many of my friends in the South and Midwest balk at me when I say I've had awful experiences with the trained (more like "untrained") chimps which work at so many Wal Marts, STS Tires, etc. Between denting/scratching rims, over-tightening wheel lugs, stripping or over-tightening oil drain bolts, forgetting oil drain bolt washers, shifting the tie rod adjustments all to one side during an alignment....and of course denying any wrong doing when I've brought the issue to their attention. Apparently many of the same chains in those areas do reputable work, but not so around here IMO.

 

Thanks,

Tim

[blackfang]

The interesting thing is according to the manual maintenance manual you are not overdue for anything. The only recommendation is to inspect the fluid not replace it.

 

Dealers like to interpret that as change it. Mine is crazy, they tend to recommend change some of those fluids out in a 15k interval.

 

Do you any trusty independents in your area, they are typically very consistent. Chains can be wonderful or nightmares but the problem is any consistency. It all depends who works on your car.

 

It also says nothing about doing alignments either, so I assume we should never do them right?

 

I can assure you, if you never change your transmission fluid and it fails before the 5/60k , you are out of luck. Here is why. For one, the maintenance guidelines is minimal. It even states that. Also it does say to inspect it, but if it is dirty you should replace it. That is a no brainer. It also says to change it every 15,000 miles on the severe service schedule. So go ahead and not change the fluid and if there is an issue with the transmission and there are no records of you having it changed, you just bought a new transmission.

 

I do think that $300 is too much for that work. Also just about every shop is going to flush that transmission. You can request a drain and fill for it to keep the cost down though.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

to me yes, but i am a tightwad.

 

2) i dont believe in performing a flush. i have heard bad things about doing that and the affects it can have on your seals.

 

3) no i sure dont man i am sorry. Maybe seeing if a mini meet is feasable? i am sure someone out there likes turning wrenches like myself. I have a T-70 and have done this a couple of times.

 

4). nah i seen the reason why. hell between me and my current wife we have 4 kids. but i do all of my work to my car and no dealer is going to touch my car. everytime you take it there they fuk something up. either they back into something and scratch it, take it for a test drive doing 120, or they break something, do something you asked them not too. people dont care about your car. thats why i do all of my work. i cant afford for it to break, so i take care of it myself. been doing just fine with 84k on the odo and i am a full stage II with an aftermarket TMIC.

 

Hi Rage-

 

Some good thoughts.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love wrenching....it's just that both the missus and I work full time, so the idea of sticking her with the monsters each time one of our 3 cars needs something would most likely end my marriage. Once they're a little older (or I can afford to have the missus stay home), I'm hoping I'll be able to scare-up some free time when I really need it.

 

I hear ya' re: some of the dealers out there. Had some of those problems with a Ford dealer and never went back. My Subie dealer has been great...just expensive as all hell. I justified going there while under warranty for obvious reasons, but I really do need to get better about doing more of my own work--and should probably find an good indy around here for the more complicated stuff.

 

As for a mini-meet, we've got a really good bunch of BMW guys (we all have old 7-Series cars) who get together to hang out, wrench, etc in the Philly area and now that I think of it, one of the guys has a Subie as his winter car. Maybe I'll see if he wants to put some time in on our Subies....

 

Have a good one,

Tim

[TimGinCentralNJ]

Also just about every shop is going to flush that transmission. You can request a drain and fill for it to keep the cost down though.

 

No kidding?? Wow, I'm surprised to hear that.

 

I'm familiar with the BG Flush for auto transmissions and did know that BG offers a flush for both manual trans, transfer cases and diffs, but I didn't think either was too "mainstream" or necessary for that matter because there are so few moving parts to get gunked-up as compared to an auto trans.

 

Good to know--thanks!

Tim

[RaGe]

yep, understand how you feel. paying out a chunk of change for child support and you know how the rest goes, is even more reason to do the stuff yourself.

 

Finding time is a real PITA. But at least i know when i do have the time the work i do will be done right. i read a crap load, and take my time doing it. doing the tranny and diff work really is a sinch.

 

jack the car up level, use the T-70 to undo the drain plug from the tranny, tada. put the drain plug back in, and fill er up. i forget what size the rear diff takes, but going to a local parts store to obtain a little pump and screwing it on the bottle only takes abotu 5 minutes. in all seriousness, the tranny and rear diff including the draining process takes about 30 minutes. But you already know if you take it to a dealer they will say it takes 1-2 hours. i am sure if i looked around i can find the dealership time for performing this task, but even at that the cost will be at least a couple hundred dollars. i just see myself paying that for something that will only cost a fraction of what a dealer is going to charge. and i can use the money.

 

total price of redline tranny/rear diff = 65 bucks.

http://www.5-starperformance.com/servlet/the-69/red-line-75w140-synthetic/Detail

 

price of the pump that i am talking about = 10 bucks.

http://www.autozone.com/R,5129854/store,752/shopping/accessoryProductDetail.htm

 

and i am sure if you posted in the regional forum for NJ, someone has a T-70 torque bit that someone will lend you. Hell they might even help you out.

 

 

i am really anal about my car. i dont like people touching it. i dont like people driving it. i am really anal about my fluids. i dont have any luck when it comes to vendors, and sure as heck dont have any luck when it comes to dealerships.

 

are you that strapped for time though that you couldnt squeeze in at least 1 hour out of the next couple or three weeks to perform this? again, if you can i would strongly suggest posting in the regional forum and ask for soem assistance with performing this task. Not only will it give you a chance to look under the vehicle but it will also further enhance your knowledge on performing maint on your own car so you dont have to rely on the dealership or a mechanic.

[RaGe]

Hi Rage-

 

Some good thoughts.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love wrenching....it's just that both the missus and I work full time, so the idea of sticking her with the monsters each time one of our 3 cars needs something would most likely end my marriage. Once they're a little older (or I can afford to have the missus stay home), I'm hoping I'll be able to scare-up some free time when I really need it.

 

I hear ya' re: some of the dealers out there. Had some of those problems with a Ford dealer and never went back. My Subie dealer has been great...just expensive as all hell. I justified going there while under warranty for obvious reasons, but I really do need to get better about doing more of my own work--and should probably find an good indy around here for the more complicated stuff.

 

As for a mini-meet, we've got a really good bunch of BMW guys (we all have old 7-Series cars) who get together to hang out, wrench, etc in the Philly area and now that I think of it, one of the guys has a Subie as his winter car. Maybe I'll see if he wants to put some time in on our Subies....

 

Have a good one,

Tim

 

i see your point tim. when our 4 kids especially the two boys ( 6 years old, both of them ) get together, its holy hell. and i mean holy hell. But my wife also understands that if i dont do this stuff that it isnt going to get done, and then she will have to take it somewhere and pay to have it done and pay double if not tripple. I do all the oil changes. paying 60-70 bucks for an oil change at a place when i can pay 30 bucks for the oil and filter and do it myself, then i just saved 20 bucks. i am a grease monkey though.

[blackfang]

No kidding?? Wow, I'm surprised to hear that.

 

I'm familiar with the BG Flush for auto transmissions and did know that BG offers a flush for both manual trans, transfer cases and diffs, but I didn't think either was too "mainstream" or necessary for that matter because there are so few moving parts to get gunked-up as compared to an auto trans.

 

Good to know--thanks!

Tim

 

I have worked for Independent shops and dealerships and all of them flush them. However, they can do a drain and fill as well.

 

To my knowledge, all manuals and diffs are just drain and refill. There is no real flush for it. The Automatic transmission can be flushed, but I am not going to get into that debate being I am pretty busy today and my opinion doesn't matter. Each side of the debate has their views.

[Opie]

Dealers like to interpret that as change it. Mine is crazy, they tend to recommend change some of those fluids out in a 15k interval.

 

Re-read the manual, you live in a coastal/high humidity area, 15k is the recomended interval for brake fluid, transmission fluid and differential fluids. It's one of the little addendums to the maintenance schedule (fine print).

 

That being said, the diffs won't need to be flushed with any machine, just drained and refilled. But if you perform just a transmission fluid drain & refill it will only replace about 3/4 of the fluid as several quarts are left in the torque converter and will not drain out. You will be mixing the new fluid with the old. A flush (like the BG flush) changes 100% of the fluid, the BG product also has a very good cleaner & conditioner, it is really good stuff if used with the recomended Subaru ATF-HP fluid (Gray Bottle).

 

Regarding the manual transmission flush...don't really see the benefit unless the tranny is completely gunked up.

[__raj]

It also says nothing about doing alignments either, so I assume we should never do them right?

 

I can assure you, if you never change your transmission fluid and it fails before the 5/60k , you are out of luck. Here is why. For one, the maintenance guidelines is minimal. It even states that. Also it does say to inspect it, but if it is dirty you should replace it. That is a no brainer. It also says to change it every 15,000 miles on the severe service schedule. So go ahead and not change the fluid and if there is an issue with the transmission and there are no records of you having it changed, you just bought a new transmission.

 

I do think that $300 is too much for that work. Also just about every shop is going to flush that transmission. You can request a drain and fill for it to keep the cost down though.

 

BlackFang I think its very prudent to change auto tranny fluid at intervals or earlier. But manual transmission not a bad idea but not required. Why on earth would you flush a manual transmission?

 

My extended family has Subaru's(8) all AWD/5MT running in New England on original tranny/diff fluid in the 150k+ range.

 

Manual tranny failure is quite rare and result of shifting habits mainly not fluid.

 

That being all said I plan on letting the dealer perform my 60k services on my two Subaru's coming really soon. I currently have $1300 in Subaru rewards(two cards) and imagine for their nearly $600 quote for each it gets done. I would only really care if that came out of my pocket.

[blackfang]

BlackFang I think its very prudent to change auto tranny fluid at intervals or earlier. But manual transmission not a bad idea but not required. Why on earth would you flush a manual transmission?

I never said anything about flushing a manual transmission. I said you can't because they are drain and fill's like the differentials. I said you can flush automatic's. Maybe you misread what was written.

 

My extended family has Subaru's(8) all AWD/5MT running in New England on original tranny/diff fluid in the 150k+ range.

 

Manual tranny failure is quite rare and result of shifting habits mainly not fluid.

So? I am not limiting the conversation to just 5MT/6MT. In your quote, I mentioned that if your transmission fails, it may not be covered if you have not done any maintenance. Just because you have not had a failure, does that mean they all won't? I have seen quite a few transmission repairs not covered by SOA because the fluid was dark, dirty and it failed. It is safe to say I have seen more transmissions and failed transmission than you have. I am not saying you have to do it, I am saying if it fails and you didn't change the fluid and that is the result of the failure, pay the piper. It is your car, not mine. Mine drives fine and runs fine.

[hassa]

$300 just for the gear oil flush/fill is crazy.....I see you're in NJ - you may want to check out some of the local folks that do this, e.g., Delvin - aka. dplacen or Paisan (AZP).

 

For $350 the AZP guys are having a special on 30/60k svcs....see this thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101030

 

They just did my 60k along w/installation of Bilsteins w/Pinks and a Brembo BBK and couldn't be happier.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

$300 just for the gear oil flush/fill is crazy.....I see you're in NJ - you may want to check out some of the local folks that do this, e.g., Delvin - aka. dplacen or Paisan (AZP).

 

For $350 the AZP guys are having a special on 30/60k svcs....see this thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101030

 

They just did my 60k along w/installation of Bilsteins w/Pinks and a Brembo BBK and couldn't be happier.

 

That may be the root of some of the confusion; I've had my dealer do all my services--including the 15K and 60k. I would've thought the trans and diff fluid changes would be part of the 60k, but on the nice little matrix my dealer provides showing what scheduled maintenance I've had done--and which need to be done, the trans and diff fluid services were listed as "need to be done".

 

Anyone know whether or not these should've been included in my 60k Maintenance? Damn thing wasn't cheap, I remember that much....

 

Tim

[blackfang]

That may be the root of some of the confusion; I've had my dealer do all my services--including the 15K and 60k. I would've thought the trans and diff fluid changes would be part of the 60k, but on the nice little matrix my dealer provides showing what scheduled maintenance I've had done--and which need to be done, the trans and diff fluid services were listed as "need to be done".

 

Anyone know whether or not these should've been included in my 60k Maintenance? Damn thing wasn't cheap, I remember that much....

 

Tim

Each dealership is different and so are there service menu's. I know for our dealership, If you come in for a 30k,60k,90k,120k,150k,180k you are getting your transmission fluid changed unless you request we don't, then we won't change it and it will be documented that you declined it.

[Garandman]

Dealers package services by mileage: and usually add a great many services, and sometimes even additives, that you do not.

 

Take a look at the required maintenance schedule in your owner's manual and order them individually, or expect a shocking bill.