My stage 2 logs (Mickeyd stg1 based) How do they look

[black318i]

This is a Mickeyd stage 1 tune that thorne tweaked for stage 2. My first logs seemed fine so I added .5 psi or less in a few cells. The last one was a short 5th gear log. All others were 3rd.

 

CA 91

AVO catted DP

OEM catless UP

Perrin TMIC

Perin crank pulley

GFB BOV full recirc.

 

http://www.box.net/shared/fep1kvfr3r

http://www.box.net/shared/fbtybs8fhi

http://www.box.net/shared/gg69vpofr9

[Legend]

Boost and timing look great. Is your LC-1 accurate? I'd get your WOT AFR's a lot closer to 11:1.

 

You had knock in your 5th gear log. I wouldn't make any adjustment based on a single log with knock in 5th... but if you can duplicate it in 5th and/or if you floor it a lot in 5th (I do), you may want to drop timing by 0.70 in the affected cell and feather by 0.35.

[black318i]

Thanks for the advise. As far as I know my LC-1 is accurate. It hovers pretty close to 14.7 at idle and cruising. So if my map is set for 10.81 and 10.75 and actual data is lower or even higher should I go ahead and make an adjustment to those cells? Does this go for boost too? I will be posting some 4th and 5th gear logs later. I won't be logging up to red line though.

[Legend]

Your actual data will seldom match exactly what your map calls for. By having a well-scaled intake (and injectors), you can get reasonably close. Still, you'll have to adjust cells to get your actual AFR closer... so yes... sometimes you'll need to have your map call for 11.2 to hit 11.0 and then down the line you might have your map call for 10.8 to hit 11.0. Make adjustments slowly and log. Ask Infamous what AFR you should be targeting on CA 91.

 

With boost you shouldn't have to fudge your targets - they should be set to close what you want to achieve. They must be realistic and appropriate. Prior to max boost, I set my targets high enough to encourage spool in 2nd and 3rd but low enough to keep 4th and 5th in check. I set my targets under 2800rpm 1-2psi higher than I can achieve in observed third gear pulls... and then from 3000rpm on I set my targets to exactly what I want to hit. I then adjust WGDC and TD to get my boost curves lined up.

[Infamous1]

You are running very high timing for CA91, which is fine as long as there is no knock. However you are running very rich right now which is most likely keeping the knock in check. Once you lean it out to actually hit your targets I am betting it will cause knock.

 

Always remeber the OL fueling table is just an ECU enrichment table. It is just converted into ratios so we can understand it. That being said you can go about hitting your target fueling two ways. 1.You can change the values in the OL fueling table as Legend mentioned. 2. Setup the OL fueling table as you wish then rescale your MAF to acheive the fueling targets.

 

As for your fueling target it really is up to you. I use a variety of different targets on different setups. You really just have to find what works for you. But first get a clear understanding of the risk of running too rich vs running too lean.

[mickeyd2005]

I think the timing is fine. It has more to do with the low boost levels.

 

Running richer than AFR 10.5 usually has no effect on knock resistance.

[mickeyd2005]

Before changing anything with your fueling, post a learning view.

 

And tell us what the ecu thinks your atmospheric pressure is.

[Infamous1]

I think the timing is fine. It has more to do with the low boost levels.

 

Running richer than AFR 10.5 usually has no effect on knock resistance.

If it wasn't CA91 I would agree, 18 degrees at 4K is a lot of timing. I have tuned multiple cars with comparable boost at leaner mixtures and they came no where near that.

 

Edit: Note the AFR is 10.2 in the range I am speaking on.

[mickeyd2005]

He has stage 2 hardware with stage 1 boost levels. I don't think anyone tunes boost at that level.

 

Also, what was the ambient temperature? The ecu will add timing when it gets cold.

 

In any case, I have seen knock at AFR 10.2 (bad MAF scaling). From what I have seen going from 10.5 to 10.2 doesn't improve knock resistance.

[thorne]

God if I only would have had a wideband that day.

 

I'm putting the stage 2 map I made up on the dyno here soon.

 

On the street here in columbus I had it at well over a lb more then what I released and it DROVE LIKE A ROCKET. So my scaled back one has lots of room for growth.

 

BTW Mickyd's is a awesome starting point. Very clean timing table. Fuel wise its a map for the masses. If your running what I posted up on romraider which I'm assuming you are. I had cheap premium in it. When I street tune I always use the lowest value. since if it don't knock the good shit won't eather.

 

That being said most gas in columbus is 92/93 .

 

If it's working on 91 tested AWESOME.

[thorne]

BTW.

 

Next year I may have a 20g map tehehehe.

God I wish I owned a LGT

[kshymkiw]

I wish we had a Wideband that day too.....Lots of room to spare on the AF.....Just makes me think that with some Dyno Time, this map can make some really good power.

[thorne]

^^ My driver for all my road tuning. every weekend for past 3 or 4 months. My name kinda picked up local some.

[thorne]

Info on the car: I called the owner.

Perrin catless uppipe

invidia catless downpipe divorced WG 4inch bell mouth

Stock catback

BM Tranny cooler

 

BTW He's a member here..

[YouAreABus]

It's me, the car really is mostly stock.

 

It pulls like mad, and feels stock-smooth at crusing speeds. If someone hadn't driven the car before and I told them this is the way it came, they wouldn't question it. I run Kroger 93 mostly, the tripminder said I averaged 22.2 MPG and I calculated 21.8 when I filled it up. I drive about 70% highway and 30% mixed, and I'm pretty good most of the time, but when I open it up *Borat* Is nice!

[black318i]

You are running very high timing for CA91, which is fine as long as there is no knock. However you are running very rich right now which is most likely keeping the knock in check. Once you lean it out to actually hit your targets I am betting it will cause knock.

 

Always remeber the OL fueling table is just an ECU enrichment table. It is just converted into ratios so we can understand it. That being said you can go about hitting your target fueling two ways. 1.You can change the values in the OL fueling table as Legend mentioned. 2. Setup the OL fueling table as you wish then rescale your MAF to acheive the fueling targets.

 

As for your fueling target it really is up to you. I use a variety of different targets on different setups. You really just have to find what works for you. But first get a clear understanding of the risk of running too rich vs running too lean.

 

Thanks for clearing up the fuel table info for me. So is the reason for maf scaling to make the fuel table more accurate?

 

Before changing anything with your fueling, post a learning view.

 

And tell us what the ecu thinks your atmospheric pressure is.

 

It was about 50 degrees. What PSI are most stage 2 tunes? Should I dial in fuel, adjust timing as needed, turn up boost a little, adjust timing as need and repeat. Is this what you wanted to see?

 

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/mrsalty75/Forum/LearningView_SS_11-11-2008100512PM.jpg

[mickeyd2005]

What is your atmospheric pressure. This is important.

 

There's something wrong with your fueling. The AFR Learning B is causing the ecu to lean out at low load when it transitions from closed loop to open loop. This is showing up in your FLKC table as -5.25 and -3.50.

 

I am also suspicious of your WBO2 logs. Your MAF values look correct for your boost levels but I can't tell until you tell us your atmospheric pressure.

 

Did you check the LC1 calibration? Is it set for gasoline? Try logging lambda instead of AFR.

 

I would double check ALL your intake connections. Are you using BONE stock intake with silencer IN place and with stock air filter. Are clamps on air filter box tight? Are hose clamps tight?

 

You might want to try the stock BPV and see if your AFR learning changes. Check all BPV hoses.

[mickeyd2005]

Is the stock air filter clean?

[Legend]

It was about 50 degrees. What PSI are most stage 2 tunes? Should I dial in fuel, adjust timing as needed, turn up boost a little, adjust timing as need and repeat. Is this what you wanted to see?

 

Ideal boost is dependent upon altitude. That's why mickey has asked for it twice. Query the ecu and report back with what it says. Your boost would be too high for where I live, and too low if at sea level.

[thorne]

Is the stock air filter clean?

I was about to say the same thing. Have you cleaned your maf? I've seen a dirty maf cause a load of issues.

 

 

They sell MAF cleaner @ any parts store.

 

What's odd is the 4k knock you see on the 2.0's can be lessened by a grounding kit but I'm not sure if thats the case on the 2.5's I would think they would have fixed that issue in later cars.

 

I also question where you raised your boost. If you raised it at spool up I would be very werry since thats where you going to see the moost boost.

[black318i]

What is your atmospheric pressure. This is important.

 

There's something wrong with your fueling. The AFR Learning B is causing the ecu to lean out at low load when it transitions from closed loop to open loop. This is showing up in your FLKC table as -5.25 and -3.50.

 

I am also suspicious of your WBO2 logs. Your MAF values look correct for your boost levels but I can't tell until you tell us your atmospheric pressure.

 

Did you check the LC1 calibration? Is it set for gasoline? Try logging lambda instead of AFR.

 

I would double check ALL your intake connections. Are you using BONE stock intake with silencer IN place and with stock air filter. Are clamps on air filter box tight? Are hose clamps tight?

 

You might want to try the stock BPV and see if your AFR learning changes. Check all BPV hoses.

 

Where can I find the atmospheric pressure in learning view or did I misunderstand and should have used Romraiders logger? If so I'll check again tonight. Not sure if this will help for now but the average elevation here is 165'. My LC1 is set for gas, but I'll try recalibrating it and setting it to lambda. All intake clamps are fine however I am running a K&N drop in which was cleaned maybe 300 miles ago and I never drive on dirt roads or anything. I will clean the MAF and log again. The resonator is missing and I don't have one since I purchased the car that way. I am looking for one though. BPV=Bypass Valve?

[kshymkiw]

Where can I find the atmospheric pressure in learning view or did I misunderstand and should have used Romraiders logger? If so I'll check again tonight. Not sure if this will help for now but the average elevation here is 165'. My LC1 is set for gas, but I'll try recalibrating it and setting it to lambda. All intake clamps are fine however I am running a K&N drop in which was cleaned maybe 300 miles ago and I never drive on dirt roads or anything. I will clean the MAF and log again. The resonator is missing and I don't have one since I purchased the car that way. I am looking for one though. BPV=Bypass Valve?

 

BPV = BOV

 

Did you oil your K&N? If some of the oil got sucked up into the MAF, it can cause issues.

[black318i]

Yes I oiled it lightly. I'm going to clean the MAF because the the the filter came with the car as well and I have no idea how liberal the previous owner was with the oil.

[thorne]

Good idea, let us know how that goes.

[kshymkiw]

Yes I oiled it lightly. I'm going to clean the MAF because the the the filter came with the car as well and I have no idea how liberal the previous owner was with the oil.

 

I would do that. Also maybe think about putting in a paper filter.....just in case.

 

Also check the hoses from the BOV/BPV and make sure they are tight. It might help to have someone in the car blipping the throttle while you are checking to see if you hear any leaks.