The End of The Horsepower War? I Don't Think So.

[SLegacy99]

So looking at the new BMW 7 series I began to think, is the horsepower war over? Apparently not. And I'm a little dissapointed, not because the new 7 series has an excessive amount of horsepower, but because personally, I think it takes away from the exclusivity of higher end models, high horsepower models. I'm also wondering with the decline of sales of vehicles like this due to high gas prices, is this a mistake for BMW? Should they be offering a more efficient, base 735i models? What do you think?

 

Finally, will an engine like this increase the price of this car, which I think luxury vehicles of this have already gotten out of control regarding price.

 

Currently:

 

750i: 360 HP, 360 Trqs. 15/23 MPG

760Li: 438 HP, 444 Trqs. 13/20 MPG

 

The new 7 series eliminates the 760Li.

 

750i: 400 HP, 450 Trqs. Not rated.

 

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/AllBMWs/FutureVehicles/7Series/Default.aspx

 

Will Mercedes, Lexus, Audi will be beefing their base models to compete with this one? And do they even need to? I'm also wondering what happened to the 8 speed auto that was desinged to go into this vehicle.

[camber]

Meh.... Most of the cars and equipment coming out in the next couple years were green lighted during better times. We won't see effects of high gas prices, EPA and economy effect overall car design for a couple more years.

 

You could offer a smaller engine or "stripper" model but that takes a model year or two to implement.

[executor485]

I wont be happy until the LGT comes out with an H6TT with base HP of 450! That can end the HP war for stock Subaru's At least for a year or so

[ehsnils]

In reality - for a luxury car you can't really use all that power unless you:

 

A. Live in Germany and can take a ride on the Autobahn when it isn't congested.

B. Live close enough to Nordschleife (Nürburgring) to take a tour now and then.

C. Exceeding the posted speed limit with figures that are double the posted ones.

 

For ordinary day to day use it really doesn't matter much if you have 250 or 400hp. But what may matter is how many cylinders the engine have since a V12 is smoother than a V8 - and it sounds better. (Sorry but the only engine I think sounds worst than a V8 is the 5 cylinder engines)

 

If you are fond of track days you won't really want a 7-series anyway. A M3 will be a lot better. Even an Impreza STi is a lot better on the track.

[Pig Pen]

well i think it depends on what kind of car you are talking about... in terms of the 7 series bmw, maybe... it is a very large and in charge car, which is not made for the track.. but it does need enough power to be able to bring all that weight to highway speeds... it is a luxury sedan, and in my opinion less sport oriented than other bmw's.. it is very expensive and i picture ceo's and such buying these cars and not caring about how fast it is but rather all the gizmo's inside... a 7 series is the kind of car i would like to be a passenger in, not so much drive.. and we are talking bmw here which also plays a role.. if the 7 series was simply a big boat with no kick it would be a toyota avalon.. they still need to uphold to their brand name and offer more then the typical competition.. so having a lot of power even if unneccesarry adds to the prestige of buying a bmw..

[Gire]

These rich folks that buy these luxo-sleds want instant power and torque, they couldn't care less about low MPG.

[SLegacy99]

These rich folks that buy these luxo-sleds want instant power and torque, they couldn't care less about low MPG.

 

I'm not sure thats entirely true anymore. There's the green factor to consider, the reduce foreign oil consumption mentality, and prices will increase if automakers are being penalized for not meeting CAFE standards. However, I think that there will always be people out there who simply can afford to not care.

[camber]

While, I think more wealthy people are environmentally conscious most of the ones that buy these types of cars don't care. These cars are leased/bought to be more of personal statement then anything. I guess as long as the "gas pig" label doesn't get applied to it like Hummer.

 

I doubt you'll see sales dip below industry averages because of fuel economy, for this type of car.

[SLegacy99]

While, I think more wealthy people are environmentally conscious most of the ones that buy these types of cars don't care.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think that attitude might be deviating. I say that because Lexus has sold more LS hybrids in the U.S. and Europe than they thought. I'm not sure if they have caught up with demand yet.

 

This also leads me to wonder why there is no AWD 7 series yet.

[Jerboa113]

too.. much.. horsepower?

 

Are those words legal to be used together like that?

[camber]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think that attitude might be deviating. I say that because Lexus has sold more LS hybrids in the U.S. and Europe than they thought. I'm not sure if they have caught up with demand yet.

 

This also leads me to wonder why there is no AWD 7 series yet.

 

 

But did people buy a LS hybrid because it was more of statement(getting super low production hard to get car) or because they were truly environmentally conscious?

 

If the truly cared about the environment, they wouldn't be buying that class of car anyway, hybrid or not.

[Pig Pen]

im not rich by any means.... but i could care less about fuel economy... or saving the planet for that matter... and neither should anyone else..

 

humanity is not going to outlive the planet.. while we are here why not use and abuse it..

[SLegacy99]

too.. much.. horsepower?

 

Are those words legal to be used together like that?

 

Haha, no, there can never be too much horsepower. Too much base horsepower. And I may be opening a new can of worms, but I see joe smoe buying this car (which is cheaper than an M5) and then letting his 16 year old drive it and then we have another thread about a group of dead teenagers. Rare occurence, yeah, but still I see it happening at some point.

 

But did people buy a LS hybrid because it was more of statement(getting super low production hard to get car) or because they were truly environmentally conscious?

 

If the truly cared about the environment, they wouldn't be buying that class of car anyway, hybrid or not.

 

I don't think the idea is being green. I think the idea is having your luxury car that is cleaner than the rest and if you can afford it why not? I mean, why buy energy efficient light bulbs when we have the sun and moon?

 

Or perhaps there were just alot of people that wanted and AWD LS.

[SLegacy99]

I also can't help but wonder why there is no M7.

[Jerboa113]

cos it'd be like a performance oil tanker?

 

nice cars and all but I just dont consider something that large as capable of really being that sporty.. I mean the 7 series is designed for very high income people who want to drive themselves.. but not really.. from what I've seen idrive does most everything for you in a 7.

[camber]

I don't think the idea is being green. I think the idea is having your luxury car that is cleaner than the rest and if you can afford it why not? I mean, why buy energy efficient light bulbs when we have the sun and moon?

 

Or perhaps there were just alot of people that wanted and AWD LS.

 

Most of those cars where sold in SoCal to "trendsetters", they don't need AWD and I doubt those people are cognizant enough to now what the benefit is past what their PR people tell them;)

 

BTW - IIRC BMW was leasing hydrogen 7 series cars to those same "trendsetters" in SoCal and Political wannabe cool type in DC as well.

 

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/09/bmw_hydrogen.html

 

Honda is doing a similar thing with the FCX as well.

[rodan]

I don't think it's as much a question of horsepower wars, as it is a question of horsepower/weight ratio. 10-12 lbs/HP is where things start to get interesting (respectable acceleration) in a mainstream 'performance sedan', and with vehicles' weights ballooning over 4000 lbs, 400+HP is necessary to keep the 0-60 times where they make good ad copy. It's getting to the point where it takes 500+HP to be exiting...

[TrueWhiteBoy]

Most of those cars where sold in SoCal to "trendsetters", they don't need AWD and I doubt those people are cognizant enough to now what the benefit is past what their PR people tell them;)

 

BTW - IIRC BMW was leasing hydrogen 7 series cars to those same "trendsetters" in SoCal and Political wannabe cool type in DC as well.

 

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/09/bmw_hydrogen.html

 

Honda is doing a similar thing with the FCX as well.

 

Hey, we have mountains down here too

 

But yeah, pretty much

 

I've seen quite a few of the green subie legacies on the road

[Guest heightsgtltd]

Check out the engine offerings outside the US for cars like the 7 series

 

BTW, you are neither Jeremy Clarkson nor British, so don't say Torques

[SLegacy99]

I don't think it's as much a question of horsepower wars, as it is a question of horsepower/weight ratio. 10-12 lbs/HP is where things start to get interesting (respectable acceleration) in a mainstream 'performance sedan', and with vehicles' weights ballooning over 4000 lbs, 400+HP is necessary to keep the 0-60 times where they make good ad copy. It's getting to the point where it takes 500+HP to be exiting...

 

This 7 series is supposedly supposed to be lighter than the last gen.

 

 

And I always say torques, foot pounds is just annoying to say.

[crazyjay1089]

People buying a 7-Series don't care about MPG and the high cost of gas...

 

 

I do have an interesting story about a 750Li though. My uncle recently moved to Dubai, leaving behind two cars and his son, my cousin, who recently got his license. One car is a 2008 BMW 750.. about 5k on the clock, mint condition. The other is a Toyota Camry hybrid. My cousin doesn't pay insurance, but does pay for gas, and when choosing between a basically brand new 7-series and a Camry.. he chose the Camry!

[underpowerd]

i've worked with dozens of gents who drive 7-series; they (wisely) don't care nearly as much about spending $ as they do about spending time.

 

so long as it has a big enough gas tank, so as to not cause inconveniently frequent fill-ups, it could get 2 mpg, and still continue to sell just fine as the corporate me-too flagship.

on topic, i think the ego of the typical 7-series owner is entitled to 100 more ponies than a v6 camry.

[Gire]

People buying a 7-Series don't care about MPG and the high cost of gas...

 

 

I do have an interesting story about a 750Li though. My uncle recently moved to Dubai, leaving behind two cars and his son, my cousin, who recently got his license. One car is a 2008 BMW 750.. about 5k on the clock, mint condition. The other is a Toyota Camry hybrid. My cousin doesn't pay insurance, but does pay for gas, and when choosing between a basically brand new 7-series and a Camry.. he chose the Camry!

 

But he won't look like a pimp in the Camry! Where are this kid's priorities?!

[Guest heightsgtltd]

Seriously, if the guy is young p**sy trumps all!

[LuckyBob]

BMW 760Li: 4905lbs / 438HP = 11.12 lb/hp

Stage 2 LGT: ~3500lbs / ~320HP = ~10.94 lb/hp

 

It might have a lot of stock power, but it's still not insanely fast (5.4s to 60mph).

 

I choose the third poll option: "Weight/HP ratios below 10 are too much for a stock non-sports car."