*** Knock, do you have any?

[iNVAR]

What gears did you go through in that pull?

 

Boost level looks low, only 10-11. Did you put the right pill in when putting the VF46 in?

 

I think you may have a vacuum leak, based on the 8-9% fuel you're adding in during idle. How many miles have been driven since you installed the AP and put the map on?

[serx7]

there's also some FBKC and FLKC at low load and cruising RPM (2000-ish RPM), which might be caused by something loose/rattling underhood. probably isn't causing driveability issues, but it would bug me enough to check into it.

[crankshift]

3rd and 4th gear pull there. I only loaded the AP and their map and took it for drives around the yard and then road test for less than 10 miles.

 

the vf46 was put in before I bought the car along with the Up so I am not sure if they used correct pill

 

yeah the FBKC and FLKC are bothering me as well.

 

fuel pump seems to stay at 30 or 33% duty at idle, its not the best on gas. I average 11L/100kms with canadas petrocan 94

 

I really didnt notice much difference in the feel of the car with this OTS map either to be honest...maybe its wise to reflash to stock for the time being..

 

cheers

[iNVAR]

No, it's because there's something wrong with your car. Stock boost is 13.5. You're not even hitting that, both in 3rd or 4th gear.

 

Don't reflash/uninstall yet. Everytime you reflash/reset you lose all the learning that the ECU has done. That learning is important to the next part. And uninstalling means you can't use the AP to log at all.

 

Figure out what the problem is. Do a quick 3 second log of the following parameters while your car is parked.

AF Learning #1 A

AF Learning #1 B

AF Learning #1 C

AF Learning #1 D

 

Those will tell us what your fuel trims are under various driving conditions. You've only driven it for about 10 miles, which is barely anything, so the fuel trims haven't settled in yet, but the 8-9% in the low/idle trim means it's adding fuel in, which can indicate a vacuum leak. I really need to see the complete picture of your fueling to start troubleshooting.

 

A vacuum/boost leak would also explain the low level of boost, and why your car feels like it has no improvement.

[crankshift]

here it is, somethings up

datalog12.csv

[iNVAR]

And now how many miles have you driven on it so far since the last reflash/reset? This is important. Do NOT reset. And please continue driving "normally" (don't baby it).

 

4.2, 0.1, 0.5, and 0 for your ABCD trims are well within range. Generally +/-5% is fine.

[crankshift]

Havent driven it since that 10 mile trip. Ill go for a longer drive today.

 

How much time or how many miles approx until the ECU has learned sufficiently?

 

Once the battery dies or gets disconnected this 'real time' learning map will get removed from the ECU, right?...if this happens and I flash the real time map back on there will it resume right where we left off?

[crankshift]

Here is the most recent log (I started logging this after a couple of hours of driving today) just regular daily driving so hopefully the car has done some learning. I think it does feel better.

 

The A/F learning 1A has gone up to 8.1% though...not sure what that means.

datalog16.csv

Edited December 5, 2013 by crankshift
add the log

[iNVAR]

Your AF trims are still okay, except trim A, but that goes wacky... If you had a vacuum/boost leak, I would expect it to have shown up already with that amount of driving.

 

Remove the AF Learning logging parameters and do some pulls again. Log:

 

RPM

Feedback Knock Correction

Fine Learning Knock Correction

Knock Sum

Boost

Load

MAF g/s

Throttle Opening Angle

Wastegate Duty

A/F Learning 1

Ignition Total Timing

Intake Air Temperature

[crankshift]

wont be back with the car until tomorrow or wed but will take your advice and get a couple of new logs w/ all that.

[crankshift]

here is a new log with a bit of a pull in 3rd and 4th .. car does seem better now than before.

 

4th gear pull seems to take a long time as the RPMs rise a lot slower than I think I remember on the stock map.

 

I hope these are the parameters we wanted.. the wording on the AP is a little different

 

what do we make of the knock sum numbers and anything else to be concerned with?

 

datalog27.csv

[iNVAR]

You're killing me man. You're logging stuff I didn't ask for. Do not log extra crap. You are slowing down the logging and making it a bit more difficult to read. Also get rid of Dynamic Advance (*) and Knock Act Sw. and Man Abs Pressure and Primary Ignition.

 

Does the AP have a throttle opening angle parameter? Log that, NOT throttle position.

 

Do a pull in 3rd and do it to redline. But please do not do half pulls in one continous shot.

 

Your boost readnig is off significantly. You are not even getting 11 PSI. You need to verify all your hardware is correct first. Pull the pill and find out if it's the correct size for your turbo. Hell, you need to figure out if the PO swapped pills, or swapped WG actuators, or whatever. When you buy a modded car you MUST know exactly what is in the car for the exact reasons we are dealing with now.

 

Search the forum regarding the pill. Go to google and type in your search terms and add in site:legacygt.com at the end of the search terms to search only this site.

[crankshift]

I went through the AP and those were the ones that were of closest resemblance and yeah I added extra shit in a weak attempt to cover it all. Ill figure out how to do get the right ones logged with this AP and work on a finding a closed strip to reach upwards to 200km/h or more as that what it seems is required to get fourth to redline.

 

 

I dont think the AP can measure throttle angle exactly as you describe but something different to get, perhaps, the same information. I pulled the following two blurbs that seem relevant after some searchingTARGET THROTTLE ANGLES (IDLE AIRFLOW TARGET) TABLE This table allows you to manipulate the resulting idle-based target throttle angle adder. This could be potentially useful for cars with aftermarket cams, for example. This current release adds the tables to the non-SD 2.5L ECUs. This was already available for SD 2.5L ECUs. (AP-SUB-002 & AP-SUB-003)

 

The new "Target Throttle Angle..." tables are in units of actual throttle targets for idle (a value that is basically added to the non-idle target to determine a final target). Other idle related tables shown are based on a target idle airflow value - which is somewhat arbitrary, but based in grams/sec units.

 

I just checked the AP and the following are the closest ones:

 

Idle airflow

idle speed target

idle speed error

target throttle, and

throttle position, which you clearly stated is not it

[iNVAR]

Do NOT do a pull to redline in 4th, lol. And if it doesn't have opening angle, position will do.

[crankshift]

I was able to talk to the PO and he is saying this car the way it is with the vf46 needs more waste gate duty cycle... I dont want to waste your time and I appreciate all your help so far... sounds like I should in fact reflash to the map he made for it until next months tune... shitty thing is I wont be able to log or use the ap gauges unless I change platforms haha...It will make me want to start boycotting cobb like I have with apple

[iNVAR]

Well, if he has a map, I'd have to ask this:

1) Who made the map?

2) Do you trust that person?

[crankshift]

so what I earlier called my stock map is the base map that he must of adjusted... Ill actually post this map for you to see if you have any interest.. its a rom raider file (.hex) I think so I cant even use it with the AP.. I am assuming its a stock map with the adjustments made for this other turbo although the file name is called stage 1 and he did mention its aim for 14.5 psi

 

I do trust the guy as I bought the car two years ago and its been fine

 

nope, wont let me post the .hex file

[iNVAR]

What I mean is do you trust the guy's ability to tune the car? What you should do is take guy's map and compare it to a fully stock map to see what changes were made. If it's only WGDC changes it'll probably be okay to use.

 

If you insist on keeping the AP, then you can get access tuner for your PC, load the Cobb map up, and make changes to the same tables as the other guy did, and then proceed to use your own AP map.

[crankshift]

ok thank you sir!

 

getting a pro to AP tune it next month along w some new power mods

[chato]

Would someone with a little more experience looking at logs mind taking a look at this and let me know if you have any ideas or have seen something like this before?

 

I've been chasing this ghost knock for months and read dozens of threads about this, tried just about everything. Unfortunately, few of those threads offer resolutions.

 

Its all low load knock events, at or below 3k rpm, usually coming on or off the throttle, WOT pulls are 100% clean.

 

I've chased down every rattle in the car, pulled and inspected the knock sensor, tried different fuel, inspected and cleaned all grounds, intake setup is tight, A/F Correction is within a few % in all ranges.

 

Map is a Cobb OTS stage II, mods are gutted up, catted DP, IPR topmount, perrin inlet, Turbosmart BPV. Plugs are under a year old.

 

thanks

knock log 1-28.csv

[fishbone]

Welcome to my world.

Can you also post a Learning View?

[chato]

Welcome to my world.

Can you also post a Learning View?

 

I know man, I've read a bunch about your issues in other threads.

 

I don't have a recent one. I wish I had screen capped the one from yesterday showed -11 degrees and -5 degrees in the first two cells of 1800-2600 rpm row and more pulled in the 2600-3400 1-1.5 load cell. everything else is clean.

[BoozeRS05]

I just updated maps to the newest Cobb ots stg2 91oct map, actually running 93oct.

 

Any issues on this log (moderate run from 2nd-4th)? Too soon to pull the data?

datalog14.csv

[chimera]

There should be some sorta "member donation" button on this site, so people can flick some people a few bucks to say thanks for their help - especially around reading and diagnosing peoples logs - it can be bloody costly through a mechanic. I'm sure gurus would be even more willing to help. God knows I owe a number of people on this site a few beers to say thanks. I get public forums are created for this very reason and there are some generous people around helping effectively complete strangers out, but reading some of these posts though, I get the gut feeling some of the guru's here must get frustrated at seeing the same shit turn up time after time... I got issues with my car at the moment but feel too rude to ask for help trawling through LV and log results time and time again without some sort of kick back for the help. Regardless, big kudos to iNVAR and similar guys for helping out. Blurt over.

[serx7]

I just updated maps to the newest Cobb ots stg2 91oct map, actually running 93oct.

 

Any issues on this log (moderate run from 2nd-4th)? Too soon to pull the data?

 

probably too early to fully assess. your DAM is at 0.69 & since you mentioned you just updated the maps, you presumably just flashed the ECU & haven't driven enough under load for DAM to increase above the initial value. or, you recently had knock that caused DAM to drop to the current value. also, part throttle logs probably aren't going to be of too much use unless you're looking for something under part throttle conditions (like potential false knock during cruise, etc)