jonklein611 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Ok, I've finally had it with how crummy my brakes feel. This is with new fluid (whatever is stock), sport pads, new rotors. They still feel like mush, but work if i give the pedal a quick jerk you get a nice solid feel. Do I just need to give them a good bleed? New fluid? I've had problems with pads sticking, but I fixed those. Anyone have any tricks for the old legs? Thanks a bazillion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolds Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Wow my old 1996 legacy L wagon had great brakes, I am actually really not liking the brakes that are on my 05 LGT comparatively. I would start with a really good bleed, its the cheapest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonklein611 Posted August 15, 2008 Author Share Posted August 15, 2008 its almost as if the pedal is on the floorboard when i get good pressure. I've had master cylinders go before, but this one has been good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottlj Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 well if you have all that done to your brakes and they are still "spungy" then that probably means you have air in your brake lines wich is not very good lol.. so go get a good brake bleed and put more fluid in there and it should fix the problem.. if thats not the problem maybe you have a leek in a brake line somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonklein611 Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 I don't think it's a leak as the fluid level in the reservoir doesn't drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I have complained about the feel or more specifically the lack thereof of the brakes in our Subie since it was new. It feels like you are sticking your foot into a bucket of oatmeal. The pedal travel is excessive compared to my other cars, ( 46 Plymouth, 60 bugeye, 99 Cherokee and 02 Jetta, not to mention all the other vehicles I have owned with the possible exception of my Huffy with hand brakes) and the feed back is marginal. When I raised this concern at the dealer I was told they all feel that way and they trotted out a couple salesmans demos for me to thrash. the did in fact feel the same, not good but the same. The snot nosed service manager asked me if I had rearended anything yet. when I said no, he said they must be working fine. That was my last visit to the dealer of origin, and I have since scatched the other local dealer off the list also. Any way, I recently replaced the rubber hoses, with aftermarket brand, and switched to ceramic pads. The feel and performance have improved appreciably, but are still not normal compared to other cars and trucks, and current disc brake equipped bikes. You can do an effective brake bleed by yourself with a length of tubing, and a suitable container for recieving fluid. Start at the brake furthest from the MC. Fill the MC, place a small block of wood or other item under the brake pedal. You do not want to push the MC piston through its full travel. Usually there will be a slight wear ring in the cylinder through normal wear. If you push the piston past the wear ring, you can put small tears in the rubber seal of the piston which will allow fluid to leak past it reducing effectivness. any way, loosen the bleed nipple, and place the plastic tubing over it. zip tie a nut to the opposit end to act as an anchor weight. Place about two inches of new fluid in the container and place the weighted end of the tube into the container with the end under the fluid. put the container on the floor or hang it form the suspension so that it is low enough to see when looking under the car from teh drivers position. Now slowly push the brake pedal down to the wooden stop ad release it slowly. You can either lean out the door and watch the tubing or reach in and press the pedal by hand while observing the tube. You will see the fluid and or air exit the system. The fluid in the container will prevent air from reentering the system when the pedal is released. When you are satisfied there are no more air bubbles, tighten the bleeder and move to the next wheel, repeat on the three other wheels, furthest to nearest the MC. check the fluid level in the MC and top up as necessary as you move between wheels. If you keep the mc full and the weighted end of the tube in the container under the fluid there, you will get a good bleed. And your wife (or GF or dumb brother) won't get mixed up between the pump, hold, and release commands that alway put a strain on a relationship. Go slowly and make sure you have a tight fit of the tubing on the bleeder, and make sure you snug the bleeders completely before moving to the next wheel. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Pump the brake pedal a few times and then press and hold. If the brake pedal slowly moves to the floor you have air in the lines or your master cylinder is shot. Make sure you bleed the brakes correctly as Subes have the wheels on the opposite corners on the same cylinders. You also have to bleed the master cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I've had this same problem since I bought my 97 leggy. I had two brake calipers lock up on me, so I replaced EVERY caliper, brake pads and rotors (since the pads were worn, and the vented front rotors were thin and full of rust.) While doing so I bled the brakes (I thought) pretty damned well...The brakes have improved a lot, but it's still horrible compared to other cars I've driven, just like Greg states. To me, I think it's bad when I have to stomp on the freaking brakes before hitting the car behind me when backing out of a spot on a cold morning (rpms higher) With the car off (no vacuum boost) pump the brake pedal. If the pedal slowly moves to the floor you have leakage past the master cylinder. I do not believe that a small amount of air in the system would cause this same effect. Once the air is compressed, the pedal should not move. In any hydraulic system, a compressible fluid such as air will simply cause a spongy feel. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonklein611 Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Not sure what happened, but now the pedal is firm, but only on certain days...... wtf???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 After seeing all that you've already done, my only suggestion would be to change the fluid. It's more than you need (ie: Motul,racing blue), but go to one with a different color, so you'll know when that line is exchanged. Other than this to improve feel go to SS lines. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I was under the impression that this condition (Mushy brakes) manifests itself mostly on older cars that have not seen regular brake fluid bleedings. Over time with any car conventional brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air and rust develops from this condition. Rusty gunk in your calipers and brake lines can impair good firm brake feel. Simply bleeding the brakes may not be enough. Sometimes replacing the calipers with new or "rebuilt" calipers and then flushing out the older brake fluid and filling up with brand new brake fluid cures the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonklein611 Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 I was under the impression that this condition (Mushy brakes) manifests itself mostly on older cars that have not seen regular brake fluid bleedings. Over time with any car conventional brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air and rust develops from this condition. Rusty gunk in your calipers and brake lines can impair good firm brake feel. Simply bleeding the brakes may not be enough. Sometimes replacing the calipers with new or "rebuilt" calipers and then flushing out the older brake fluid and filling up with brand new brake fluid cures the problem. Already swapped all of the calipers due to ones locking up due to rust. I'm going to do a flush with a diff color fluid. Let's see if I can do this in the dorm parking lot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I hate to thread jack, but it's relevant: I replaced all of my calipers and thoroughly flushed the system ealier this year. The braking feel improved, but it's still really not very good. I did notice not too long after that brake fluid was leaking at the banjo fitting at the caliper. After tightening a bit more it stopped, and maybe this allowed some air into the caliper. I haven't had a chance to re-bleed the brakes, but hopefully will soon. I didn't even think about changing to a different color to really determine a thorough flush. That's a great idea! '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I'm going to do a flush with a diff color fluid. Let's see if I can do this in the dorm parking lot..... Using Russell Speed bleeders makes it a one person job. @$28 /4. They self close after you push the pedal, so no air or any thing else goes back up the line. They've been worth their weight in gold to me. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Ok, I've finally had it with how crummy my brakes feel. This is with new fluid (whatever is stock), sport pads, new rotors. They still feel like mush, but work if i give the pedal a quick jerk you get a nice solid feel. Do I just need to give them a good bleed? New fluid? I've had problems with pads sticking, but I fixed those. Anyone have any tricks for the old legs? Thanks a bazillion master cylinder might be bad?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonklein611 Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 master cylinder might be bad?? been replaced like 3 times...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottlj Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 haha shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonklein611 Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 haha shit yeah the referb one they gave me blew out. scary driving back to the shop with brakes that work only when you slam on the brakes...... . So I'm on master cylinder #3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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