Yoko H4S vs. BFG Traction T/A H

[RustyShackleford]

Down to these two choices (size 225/55-17). Both seem

highly-rated at tirerack. I want decent performance but

also good treadwear. Thoughts ? Thanks !

[JOE_1985]

i recomened these to a friend of mine with a tiburon that drives hard all the time, he loves em, great in rain, and have lasted a good while.

 

sorry i ment the yoko's

 

ive never really liked bfg's tires, they all seem to grip like crap after 50% worn

[NutBucket]

How about Advan S.4? That's what I'm going to put on my gf's car since we need it to be snow capable.

[RustyShackleford]

How about Advan S.4? That's what I'm going to put on my gf's car since we need it to be snow capable.

 

Hmm, maybe. Lot more expesnive ($165 versus $125) for a little more

performance and less treadlife (according to the rating). Snow very rarely

an issue where I live.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[NutBucket]

If snow doesn't matter then just go for a good summer tire. They usually do well in rain.

[RustyShackleford]

If snow doesn't matter then just go for a good summer tire. They usually do well in rain.

 

Consensus here is that "summer" tires are bad news even in

near-freezing temperatures without precipitation.

[RustyShackleford]

Down to these two choices (size 225/55-17). Both seem

highly-rated at tirerack. I want decent performance but

also good treadwear. Thoughts ? Thanks !

 

Now I'm a little confused. Pretty much decided on the

Yokohama Avid H4S. But then I go to tirerack.com again,

and instead of searching on my vehicle, I simply put in the

size (225/55-17) without any sort of performance designator,

and lo and behold, it comes up with some add'l tires, including

the Yokohama Avid TRZ. The TRZ rates higher in every

category in their "survey" numbers; but, it's a "standard

touring all-season", not a "high performance all season".

It's speed rating is T, not H (so it's only good to 118mph,

not 130mph).

 

Let's get serious, no Subaru (at least a non-mod'ed, non-turbo)

is gonna go over 100mph, and if it does, I ain't gonna drive it

that fast. I got over that about 30 years ago. But I still want

it to handle as well as possible, which according to the survey,

the TRZ does better. But, maybe the people giving the survey

numbers are coming at it from a different place, given the

different "performance category" of the tires.

 

So, should I go with the H4S or TRZ ?

[NutBucket]

Just remember that, as you noticed, the survey results are relative to other tires in the category. So really, you shouldn't use the survey results to compare the two tires. Now, if there are TR comparo tests with hard numbers, then you can probably make a fair comparison between the two tires based on the hard numbers.

[RustyShackleford]

Now I'm a little confused. Pretty much decided on the

Yokohama Avid H4S. But then I go to tirerack.com again,

and instead of searching on my vehicle, I simply put in the

size (225/55-17) without any sort of performance designator,

and lo and behold, it comes up with some add'l tires, including

the Yokohama Avid TRZ. The TRZ rates higher in every

category in their "survey" numbers; but, it's a "standard

touring all-season", not a "high performance all season".

It's speed rating is T, not H (so it's only good to 118mph,

not 130mph).

 

Let's get serious, no Subaru (at least a non-mod'ed, non-turbo)

is gonna go over 100mph, and if it does, I ain't gonna drive it

that fast. I got over that about 30 years ago. But I still want

it to handle as well as possible, which according to the survey,

the TRZ does better. But, maybe the people giving the survey

numbers are coming at it from a different place, given the

different "performance category" of the tires.

 

So, should I go with the H4S or TRZ ?

 

Thanks for your thoughts, NutBucket (sounds like a slur :-)

 

Here's what a knowledgeable pal emailed me:

 

 

It's not just stickiness, it other stuff, esp how the carcass of the tire is constructed. Standard advice in the

tire industry, industry wide, is to always meet or exceed the original speed rating of your OEM tires. Most tire

shops will not do what you want to do. Idf they do, I would expect them to get you to sign a realease or the repair

order in triplicate stating that you understand what you are doing. T speed rating is really kinda bottom of the

barrel in this day and age. Will really have crap sterring response from floppy carcass. I have done the kind of

thing you are doing, for the same reasons, although not as low as T speed rating. I have "degraded" a car from OEM

V rating to H, I was not happy. Don't do it.

[JOE_1985]

just buy some falkens then

[jonklein611]

I like the H4s, thats what we run on all of our cars. Great wear, decent grip for an "all season".

[krzyss]

Thanks for your thoughts, NutBucket (sounds like a slur :-)

 

Here's what a knowledgeable pal emailed me:

 

 

It's not just stickiness, it other stuff, esp how the carcass of the tire is constructed. Standard advice in the

tire industry, industry wide, is to always meet or exceed the original speed rating of your OEM tires. Most tire

shops will not do what you want to do. Idf they do, I would expect them to get you to sign a realease or the repair

order in triplicate stating that you understand what you are doing. T speed rating is really kinda bottom of the

barrel in this day and age. Will really have crap sterring response from floppy carcass. I have done the kind of

thing you are doing, for the same reasons, although not as low as T speed rating. I have "degraded" a car from OEM

V rating to H, I was not happy. Don't do it.

 

Your friend is right. You will have hard time finding shop willing to put T-rated tires if OE is H-rated.

 

Krzys

[jonklein611]

Heck I even use H4s as an AutoX tire for stock class. Way longer tread life then the pos i had before, and wayyy more grip. You can get around in snow n such, but don't expect anything special.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

Now I'm a little confused. Pretty much decided on the

Yokohama Avid H4S. But then I go to tirerack.com again,

and instead of searching on my vehicle, I simply put in the

size (225/55-17) without any sort of performance designator,

and lo and behold, it comes up with some add'l tires, including

the Yokohama Avid TRZ. The TRZ rates higher in every

category in their "survey" numbers; but, it's a "standard

touring all-season", not a "high performance all season".

It's speed rating is T, not H (so it's only good to 118mph,

not 130mph).

 

Let's get serious, no Subaru (at least a non-mod'ed, non-turbo)

is gonna go over 100mph, and if it does, I ain't gonna drive it

that fast. I got over that about 30 years ago. But I still want

it to handle as well as possible, which according to the survey,

the TRZ does better. But, maybe the people giving the survey

numbers are coming at it from a different place, given the

different "performance category" of the tires.

 

So, should I go with the H4S or TRZ ?

 

Hey Rusty-

 

I believe when you do a search for a specific vehicle, the search engine considers not only the size--but also the speed rating and type (e.g., summer, all-season, etc) of the tires which came on your car. So, when you did a search purely on size, this is why you saw every available tire for that size--regardless of speed rating.

 

You're right about the speed rating to an extent, but it's more than just how fast you drive--speed rating also pertains to how the tire makes your car handle and under any of the driving conditions (and situations) you may encounter.

 

My one concern would be that (at least for me personally) I really dislike the way my OB handles even changing lanes at 65mph on a set of tires which don't have a reasonably firm sidewall...it's like driving on 4 jello molds; unresponsive and not well controlled. As an example, I'm not sure if you've even run snow tires on your OB before, but a set of "T" rated and even some "H" rated tires will handle a lot like that. And the sloppy suspension on these cars also amplifies the poor handling of any mediocre, non-performance tire.

 

FWIW, you might want to consider a tire which is at least the same speed rating as what your car came with--I'm assuming "V" rated? Although higher than "V" rating, I'm currently looking at some all-season tires, too, specifically Goodyear Eagle F1 All-Season, Toyo Proxes 4, and I've also heard very good things about the Yoko S.drive from both fellow Subaru and BMW friends.

 

Hope that helps,

Tim

[RustyShackleford]

Thanks, Tim. Actually, I notice my owner's manual says OEM is 'V', but the

H4S are 'H' (slower than 'V') even though tirerack included them on the list

for my car. The OEM were Bridgestone RE92A, which seem to be universally

considered crap here and which are 'V'. Hmm. Meanwhile, I've noticed this

same thing (jello mold) with the RE92's, so I hope the new ones are better not

worse.

 

Oddest of all, my old car, a '97 OB, which I just drove while the H4S are getting

mounted, has T-rated tires (the Yoko Avid TRZ) *AND* 70-profile sidewalls, yet

feels a lot stiffer than the '06 with the 55-profile RE92's. What's up with that ?!?

 

Oh well, we'll (I'll) soon see.

[jonklein611]

Gotta love the 70 profiles. On my older legacy i switched to a 65 profile and upped the width one. Great choice (it was to get H4s on my car)

[JoeFromPA]

I have had the Bfgoodrich traction t/a's for about 10k miles on a previous vehicle (and I've had too close friends who have had them as well).

 

I have also driven a set of Yokohama Avid V4S's from new to destruction on my wife's previous car, a 2003 Saturn Ion 3 5-speed (205/55/16 size).

 

In my opinion, having had both of these tires on different cars, I would recommend AGAINST the yokohamas and STRONGLY for the Bfgoodrich's.

 

Now, here's my experience with the Yokohamas:

 

When new, great noise and comfort but surprisingly wallowy feel in steering response and handling (compared to the car's stock firestone firehawk craptasticos). Absolutely terrible in snow. Good in rain. Wore out in 25k miles and started to really develop a bad "scalloped" noise when slowing down. That noise that rapidly fades in and out as the tire rolls over different parts of the tread...even though wear appeared even.

 

Bfgoodrich - I had these in 205/50/16 on a '95 volvo 850 turbo. Simply the best all-season I have ever experienced in snow in a FWD vehicle....even better than my 2005 Saab 9-2x aero (WRX Wagon) w/ the stock re92's but with AWD. Fantastic in all conditions, snow, rain, dry. Great handling & steering response. Little stiffer ride, but that car had a stiff ride already so....

 

At 10k miles, they looked brand new. Other friends with the tires have the same exact experiences I've said on multiple cars. A friend who I just led to these tires, ordered from online, does have a balancing issue. Not sure if it's the tire, wheel, or improperly balanced yet. Other than that, just rock-star things to say about them.

 

One other tire I'll mention is the Kumho ASX....it'll probably be cheaper, if that helps. I've seen and heard nothing but overall positive review for them. Like a good all-season, it doesn't really shine anywhere. But it's a very good all-around tire that combines good handling, good ride comfort, good traction in all conditions, and long-life. We replaced the yokohama's on my wife's saturn with the Kumho ASX and drove on them for 12k miles. They looked like they had 70% of their life left and were still doing fantastic...they transformed that car by the way. It rode better, quieter, handled much more satisfactory, and was more comfortable in a greater range of conditions.

 

I hope this helps in your choice.

 

Joe

[SBT]

I run only two tire manufacturers, the first is the Michelin PS A/S in 225/45x17 on my LGT wagon. Am on my 2nd set after 30K+ on the first set. Superb at everything is the only way to describe them - wet, snow (thin/fine, on ice w/snow cover, rain (light, moderate, cow-peeing-on-flat-rock hard), and dry weather traction are all phenomenal. I did notice a spec bit more noise over the stock RE92As, but it stayed at the same level through all of the miles. I have a more extensive review posted up in post 165 of this tire compendium thread here. For the price versus performance and longevity, these are my go-to LGT Wagon tires.

 

For my two 98 LGTs, I run the Bridgestone RE760 Summer Tires which give me all of the dry and wet handling that I need for these two vehicles. They're still ZR rated, which is the top of the limit for these two cars, but the turn-in, handling and braking are what I'm after so they work wonderfully for this. Road noise is very quiet, relative to the RE92s that came stock on these two cars. Treadwear is at 30K and 40K on the other and both sets look like they'll last until at least 50-60K before I start thinking about changing them out.

 

I also run BS RE960 AS PP on my 99 Legacy L Wagon - which do really well in the wet and dry and some light snow, but I don't take this to the snow very often since it's not LSD equipped. But the tread wear is at 25K right now and I can't even tell that they've worn. I keep the TPs at 34F/32R (stock is 32/30) and that keeps the sidewall really firmed up which does help the handling. As an H-rated, this is solidly in the load rating for this vehicle and it works really well in this application.

 

And I run BS G019 on the 96 OBS. Perfect tire for this application, great handling, good to excellent snow, perfect in rain and damp conditions and in some of the occasional off-trail conditions that the OBS finds itself in when it's not a daily commuter. Treadwear is excellent at ~45K right now and definitely quieter than the Pirellis that they replaced.

HTH

[SBT]

I want to try the Pilot Sport AS but I am not sure about their treadlife. Seem a bit short. That and the sidewall stiffness for the Outback's size might be a bit soft.

 

40,000 miles on a ZR rated tire is short treadlife? Really think I'll see 50,000 out of this newest set. Sidewall stiffness will not be an issue, especially if you run 2PSI (possibly 4 F/R on your OB) over stock pressures. These tires dig-in and go. Dry - phenomenal, very, very solid in the rain (especially on Cali's oil-soaked dry roads when it rains) and more than predictable in the snow. Basically point and shoot in all conditions (with appropriate caution of course)