03LegacyWgn Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 ahh ok i gotya, so im stuck with it then 03 BH Mods: Group A Alt & Crank Pullys and end links, CIA, JDM L7 Grille, JDM HID lights, JDM rear tails Stromung CBE, KYB GR2's W/ H&R springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGG Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 ^ The bright side is it's a very effective, relatively simple, tried and true system that Subaru has been using for ~20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03LegacyWgn Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 ok, just the 50/50 looks more appealing, i guess its better for gas with the ratio 03 BH Mods: Group A Alt & Crank Pullys and end links, CIA, JDM L7 Grille, JDM HID lights, JDM rear tails Stromung CBE, KYB GR2's W/ H&R springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGG Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Meh. I had a '99 5 speed Impreza and ,although it was more fun in the snow, I think the AWD system in the auto is more effective. I kind of had to drive the Impreza sideways in the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 AFAIK no, it is definitely a programming matter and I don't know if a reflash of some type is available or possible. Perhaps a post in the transmission forum may reach one with more info. Regarding brakes. The largest rotor that will fit under the 16" wheel is 11.5". You already have 11.3 rear, so no need for change. Front though is only 10.7 and to go 11" or larger, you also need to change the caliper. Change is more determined by driving style than anything else. A pad upgrade is more than sufficient for most. But, if you do a lot of canyon carving, autox or other hard on the brakes styles,then a rotor and caliper upgrade will be in order. Tires first, then brakes. Again posting in the brakes section will bring a lot of answers. Some BS too but you'll be able to tell the difference soon. Hope this helps. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Upgrade to a Limited-Slip Differential & 4.444 gears instead of 4.111 This is a definite upgrade. I came across something the other day that made me jump out of my seat. I have 4.111 gear ratios and no LSD. An 00-01 Impreza 2.5RS w/ a 5MT has 4.111 gears, WITH AN LSD. Same with an 02-03 WRX w/ a 4EAT. All I have to do is pull the LSD off either one and bam, Limited-Slip. Slow down for just a bit on this one. First of all, your Legacy L diffs (front and rear) are 3.37 (or possibly 3.58) IIRC, not 4.111 and they're both open diffs. 4.111 was used for the GT and the RS models, 4.444 was used in the Outback and possibly in one variant or another of the RSes. But, the main point is that you can't just swap out your rear diff and expect that that will give you an LSD. You'll still need to swap in the front transaxle (or at least tear down your front transaxle and replace the diff with one that matches the rear LSD ratio. Also, the WRXes tranny has a gear-reduction internal to it and cannot be used without using a WRX rear diff (unless you tear it down to make it work). Upgrade suspension (what's the difference between L and GT?) The L models had softer suspension, which I like. It's more comfortable, but isn't as good as the GT stock springs. I might go with some H&R's sometime soon, as well as KYB GR-2 struts. You might want to check out this link for some great Coilovers for your model. I'm not sure if the rear springs are specific to the BH or whether they'll work with your BE, but if you want to lower your car, this is certainly one way to go. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89325 For what it's worth, the Legacy struts are the same for the GT and the L models, only the springs are changed. Anyway - welcome to the site and keep us posted on your progress. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 ^90/10 is where it operates, in theory, when just cruising on a dry, flat, straight road. If the wheels slip you get up to a 50/50 split. It even changes the bias a bit when you go around a turn. The AT system isn't built to handle 50/50 all the time like the MT. Not sure whether it's been mentioned already, but the 4EAT can be "locked" into a 50/50 torque split by pulling the tranny into 1st or 2nd gear. The benefit of starting out with the shifter in 2nd, is that it will start out and stay in 2nd (locked at 50/50) and won't upshift or downshift at all. Reverse also locks the center diff at 50/50 too. If you just put it in Drive or 3rd, then the tranny starts out at 90F/10R and stays that way until slip is detected, then the center diff/clutch pack will shift torque front-to-rear as necessary, finally returning to normal 90/10 operations when slip is no longer detected. But, since the OP has a 5MT, it's locked at 50/50 all of the time and the center diff will move torque somewhat when/if slip is detected. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAG Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 Slow down for just a bit on this one. First of all, your Legacy L diffs (front and rear) are 3.37 (or possibly 3.58) IIRC, not 4.111 and they're both open diffs. 4.111 was used for the GT and the RS models, 4.444 was used in the Outback and possibly in one variant or another of the RSes. But, the main point is that you can't just swap out your rear diff and expect that that will give you an LSD. You'll still need to swap in the front transaxle (or at least tear down your front transaxle and replace the diff with one that matches the rear LSD ratio. Also, the WRXes tranny has a gear-reduction internal to it and cannot be used without using a WRX rear diff (unless you tear it down to make it work). You might want to check out this link for some great Coilovers for your model. I'm not sure if the rear springs are specific to the BH or whether they'll work with your BE, but if you want to lower your car, this is certainly one way to go. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89325 For what it's worth, the Legacy struts are the same for the GT and the L models, only the springs are changed. Anyway - welcome to the site and keep us posted on your progress. SBT SBT, Thanks for the FYI. You're right, but I think that's for the BD models. My local dealer told me I had 4.111 gears on my L, and GTs and Outbacks 00-04 had 4.444 gears. I've also heard it from other L owners. I know for sure the 00-01 2.5RS had 4.111 gears w/ rear LSD. If I decide to go through with it, I'll swap both the front and rear out, and maybe even swap out the entire tranny if needed. You're 100% correct about the WRX, that wont work with my car unless I wanted to swap out everything, which wouldn't be worth it just for rear LSD. Coilovers are definitely the way to go. They're expensive, but worth it. I wont be able to get to them for a while though. I'm still working on some finishing touches with the exterior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03LegacyWgn Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 oh i wish i could find the thread that a previous member did this swap, i do belive we as the BE/BH L models have the (cant quite remember) 3.37/3.83 ratio so you would have to swap the ring and pinion gear from what that member told me, ill try to find the thread and post the link here, also might of just been a PM between the 2 of us 03 BH Mods: Group A Alt & Crank Pullys and end links, CIA, JDM L7 Grille, JDM HID lights, JDM rear tails Stromung CBE, KYB GR2's W/ H&R springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03LegacyWgn Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 K found the thread i was talking about, some more info for the LSD swap http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79075 03 BH Mods: Group A Alt & Crank Pullys and end links, CIA, JDM L7 Grille, JDM HID lights, JDM rear tails Stromung CBE, KYB GR2's W/ H&R springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 The previously posted info on the 4.111 diffs for an "L" are clearly not correct. As I mentioned, the L's almost exclusively have 3.37 or 3.90 open diffs. The 4.111 was only on the LGTs and some RSes and they're (at least on all the LGTs) LSDs. Outbacks use the 4.444 to compensate for the different tire size. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03LegacyWgn Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 ^^ ya i realize that, was pretty much posting that for KAG so he had more info to go on other than swapping the wrong rear diff. 03 BH Mods: Group A Alt & Crank Pullys and end links, CIA, JDM L7 Grille, JDM HID lights, JDM rear tails Stromung CBE, KYB GR2's W/ H&R springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 ^^ ya i realize that, was pretty much posting that for KAG so he had more info to go on other than swapping the wrong rear diff. Yes you have it correct. I was pointing out to KAG (poorly executed on my part) that the info about his "L" having a 4.111 diff setup was incorrect. Both of us were pointing him in the right direction - which is a good thing SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAG Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 Yes definitely thanks to you guys for correcting me before I went and put the wrong diff in my rear end. If I do go through with it, it wont be for a while since winter is quite a ways away, but it will also be good to get it out of the way soon. According to the thread that originally talked about swapping in the LSD, 'DA SUUB' put one in and the 3.90 ring and pinion was a direct bolt-on replacement for the 4.11, which would be from the new diff. So, it sounds like the 00-04 L models have 3.90 rear diff, correct? What car would I need to pull one out of? Just so we are clear here, my car is 5MT. This is the thread where I was misleaded: http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?t=1267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 You can pull out a compatible Subaru LSD diff, pop it open, pull out the LSD unit, and take the ring gear off of the LSD unit. Then pull the rear diff out of your car, pop it open and pull the guts out of it, swap the ring out of your diff onto the LSD unit, drop it all back into your diff, shim it and balance it, close it up and re-install your diff back into your car. Fairly involved and you'll have to professionally shim/balance the diff in order to it to work properly. I think you're better served to find a transaxle and rear lsd that are already matched. Unless you know for certain exactly what your diff ratios are (current and proposed upgrade), then it's a crap-shoot and definitely not in a good way if something is mis-matched. Say goodbye to your center diff and your tranny. HTH, SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03LegacyWgn Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 ^^ if you gave the dealer your VIN would they be able to tell you for sure? i know subaru does some funny things with availability of supplys. also where would you get the shims and how would you properly balance the new diff? ive done rear ends in trucks and muscle cars b4 so i know how to shim it but this balancing you talk about is new to me. also is the LSD carrier the same axle spline as the open diff? i have yet to find a clear exploded blue print of both to be able to tell 03 BH Mods: Group A Alt & Crank Pullys and end links, CIA, JDM L7 Grille, JDM HID lights, JDM rear tails Stromung CBE, KYB GR2's W/ H&R springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 ^^ shimming it is the same as any other diff. By balance, I meant getting the diff square to the frame. It's an IRS so you don't want one stub to be higher that the other, side-to-side. Some people bolt them up with no issues, others manage to get them canted slightly which can lead to isssues with the axles. IIRC, some of the diffs have stubs and some have axle holes so you'd definitely want to make sure that your rear axles could mount up with no issues either. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03LegacyWgn Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 ^^ ok thought so thanks for clarifying the balance issue.. would anyone know if the GT rear axles of the same MY are the same as the L model? i work part time at an auto parts store and tried looking through some of my supplier's pictoral catalog's and couldnt find a pic of the rear axle for either model. ahh wait ill swing by the dealer tomorrow and see what the parts guy can pull up without a vin for the GT 03 BH Mods: Group A Alt & Crank Pullys and end links, CIA, JDM L7 Grille, JDM HID lights, JDM rear tails Stromung CBE, KYB GR2's W/ H&R springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAG Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 You can pull out a compatible Subaru LSD diff, pop it open, pull out the LSD unit, and take the ring gear off of the LSD unit. Then pull the rear diff out of your car, pop it open and pull the guts out of it, swap the ring out of your diff onto the LSD unit, drop it all back into your diff, shim it and balance it, close it up and re-install your diff back into your car. Fairly involved and you'll have to professionally shim/balance the diff in order to it to work properly. I think you're better served to find a transaxle and rear lsd that are already matched. Unless you know for certain exactly what your diff ratios are (current and proposed upgrade), then it's a crap-shoot and definitely not in a good way if something is mis-matched. Say goodbye to your center diff and your tranny. HTH, SBT Finding a transaxle and rear lsd that are already matched would be harder to find I think, and it would probably cost a bit more $$$. The recycler nearby has an LSD already pulled from an 01 2.5RS and he's willing to give it to me for $150. I can still go ahead and get that one, open it up, swap the ring and pinion from mine onto it, then shim and balance it, and I'll be able to put it on my car and drive away with (hopefully) no issues, correct? Or maybe there's still something I'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Not sure if you're registered on NASIOC.com or not, but it looks like this member just swapped out his diff. You might want to go over and talk specifics with him abou what he needed to change out his diff. He's a WRX owner, but he WAS looking for a Legacy R160 diff, which is what we run in our Subes. STI runs an R190 (much beefier) diff. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22367976&postcount=9 There may be axle shaft issues with the LSD setup so that's why I recommend hitting him up for some info on his swap. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03LegacyWgn Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 talked to my parts guy at the dealership today, he didnt have time to check while i was there but will email me the info (used to work with him for a few years at my part store) he understands what im trying to do here so im sure he will figure something out. 03 BH Mods: Group A Alt & Crank Pullys and end links, CIA, JDM L7 Grille, JDM HID lights, JDM rear tails Stromung CBE, KYB GR2's W/ H&R springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAG Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 ^^^I also headed to the dealership today to find out what their input was. I told them I wanted to talk to someone who knows most about the BE/BH legacy. The guys name was Mark and he confirmed the 3.90 gear ratio and to disregard whatever the guy who told me it was 4.11 said. His advice was to leave the stock rear end alone. He said it would be opening a 'can of worms', which is pretty much true. The only car he knew that has a rear LSD and 3.90 gears is a 1991 Legacy Turbo AWD w/ a 5MT. Otherwise he said get all new axles, F&R diffs, and a tranny that corresponds with it all. That would be a lot of money though, all for rear LSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 His advice was to leave the stock rear end alone. He said it would be opening a 'can of worms', which is pretty much true. The only car he knew that has a rear LSD and 3.90 gears is a 1991 Legacy Turbo AWD w/ a 5MT. Wow! That's impressive that he knew this about the 91 Legacy Sport Turbo Sedan 3.90 LSD. Many are not aware of this. So, if you can find one of these, you can get marginally better fuel economy (compared to a 4.11 or a 4.44), and have an LSD. Otherwise he said get all new axles, F&R diffs, and a tranny that corresponds with it all. That would be a lot of money though, all for rear LSD. Depending on what transaxle/rear diff you go with, your might not have to change out your axles as they may bolt right up with no issues, but you could possibly get better gearing than you have in your "L" AND gain a high performance LSD. If you shop around and do your homework, you can likely find a late-model transaxle/rear LSD and driveshaft for <$500.00. Definitely worth thinking about. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAG Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'll check with the dismantler if they have one. If they do, I'll most likely jump on it. That's also another thing we talked about. 3.90 gears compared to 4.44 really could be a pretty big difference in fuel economy. I can drive my car hard for a full tank and still manage to get 25mpg. That'd be a different story with those gears. I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33731&viewitem=&item=300232752844 Think it'll work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'm looking for anything I can do to enhance the looks and performance. I mainly want to try to bring it as close as I can to the GT. It may sound a bit ridiculous but I'm ready for anything. Not on too big of a budget. Here are some of the possibilities: Hood from a Baja Turbo or find one off a B4 online GT side skirts Upgrade to a Limited-Slip Differential & 4.444 gears instead of 4.111 Install fog lights Upgrade headlights to GT or Outback headlights w/ black housing Set up tweeters in the doors Upgrade suspension (what's the difference between L and GT?) Can i just go back to the original question for a moment... And suggest to JDM that biatch up a bit Both these cars are stock standard!!! http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/79/65483279_full.jpg http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/8/65483908_full.jpg http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/77/69285077_full.jpg http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/39/69286039_full.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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