desertfoxaz Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 It's probably more a factor of deleting the hood scoop in order to apply to a more broad US demographic. If you ask most adults who do not like Suby's why they feel that way, they'll usually point out the hood ... and then brand image. If somebody doesn't like Subaru's image, they aren't going to start liking them because they have a car without a hood scoop. At least it's functional. Look at all the Ford/GM products that have fake scoops. The truth is, the turbo H4 is more powerful than the H6. Yet, those that are uninformed will think the H4 is inferior just because it has 2 fewer cylinders. Subaru likely made the 3.0R because people who were cross-shopping the Camry/Accord/Altima/etc. wouldn't even consider the Legacy to be in the same class because you couldn't get one with a 6-cylinder engine. They'd rule it out without even going to the dealer to see and test drive one. Saab did the same thing with the 9-3 a few years ago. The top model had a 4-cylinder turbo and people were dismissing it because a lot of the competitors had 6-cylinder engines. When switched the top model's engine to a V-6, sales increased. It would be interesting to see how the 3.0R is comparing to the GT in terms of sales, although you'd have to use the numbers of automatic GTs as the 3.0R isn't available with a manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z28dreams Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 It's probably more a factor of deleting the hood scoop in order to apply to a more broad US demographic. If you ask most adults who do not like Suby's why they feel that way, they'll usually point out the hood ... and then brand image. This is the exact reason I almost didn't buy a Subaru. I really don't like the exterior styling much at all, and Subaru isn't considered a 'premium' brand name by anyone. People know Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes, and that's about it. After driving the LGT though, I just decided that this was an acceptable trade-off. I still sort of miss the torque down-low, but the turbo wall has a nice fast "feel" to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Smart people also know that acura is just honda, infinit is just nissan and lexus is just toyota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwaters943 Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 The truth is, the turbo H4 is more powerful than the H6. Yet, those that are uninformed will think the H4 is inferior just because it has 2 fewer cylinders. Subaru likely made the 3.0R because people who were cross-shopping the Camry/Accord/Altima/etc. wouldn't even consider the Legacy to be in the same class because you couldn't get one with a 6-cylinder engine. They'd rule it out without even going to the dealer to see and test drive one. It's all in how you look at things I suppose. There is more to a car than HP numbers. How the power is delivered can make a huge difference in how a car feels. The torque curve of the 3.0 H6 is MUCH flatter than the Turbo-H4. When saddled with the 5-speed auto this really makes a difference in how the car feels, especially in stop and go city driving. FWIW, I'm not saying that the 3.0R wouldn't benefit from another 25-30 hp (40-50 lb-ft of torque) and a manual transmission option, because it surely would. I just don't think it's quite the dog some are making it out to be, especially considering the pricing. Stock, the 3.0R feels about as quick as a stock GT, but speed only tells part of the story. One thing that really suprised me during my test drive was the 3.0R's composure over manhole covers, expansion joints, broken pavement, etc. Even with larger wheels and lower profile tires it just seemed to ride better than the GT, with less impact harshness and greater stability in sharp turns. I just for the life of me can't figure out why Subaru is so stingy with the color combinations on this model. Would it kill them to offer it in a light shade other than geriatric gold? The pearl white from the GT would be sweet. And how about offering the taupe & ebony interiors with all the exterior colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttlejockey Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 It's all in how you look at things I suppose. There is more to a car than HP numbers. How the power is delivered can make a huge difference in how a car feels. The torque curve of the 3.0 H6 is MUCH flatter than the Turbo-H4. When saddled with the 5-speed auto this really makes a difference in how the car feels, especially in stop and go city driving. FWIW, I'm not saying that the 3.0R wouldn't benefit from another 25-30 hp (40-50 lb-ft of torque) and a manual transmission option, because it surely would. I just don't think it's quite the dog some are making it out to be, especially considering the pricing. Stock, the 3.0R feels about as quick as a stock GT, but speed only tells part of the story. One thing that really suprised me during my test drive was the 3.0R's composure over manhole covers, expansion joints, broken pavement, etc. Even with larger wheels and lower profile tires it just seemed to ride better than the GT, with less impact harshness and greater stability in sharp turns. I just for the life of me can't figure out why Subaru is so stingy with the color combinations on this model. Would it kill them to offer it in a light shade other than geriatric gold? The pearl white from the GT would be sweet. And how about offering the taupe & ebony interiors with all the exterior colors. The 3.0R engine is too smooth. It's a nice car but it always seemed like I had to use a lot of pedal just to keep a steady pace going. The fun factor with the AT just isn't there either. I hate to say it but it was boring to drive. I feel qualified to reply because I had one for 12K miles of ownership. I don't know how it compares in ride to the GT, but my SpecB rides much better than the 3.0R I had. It was a costly mistake for my wife and I but we're happy now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 If somebody doesn't like Subaru's image, they aren't going to start liking them because they have a car without a hood scoop. At least it's functional. Look at all the Ford/GM products that have fake scoops. Functional is interesting to us, but functional or aesthetic, most adults who would pay ~30k USD for a car don't like hood scoops due to the image. Just like some teenagers, etc. opt for aesthetic ones due to the image. The engine argument is valid if you intend to modify, but some want more low end smoothness and will never spend a dollar beyond maintenance. They also will rarely see the engine hit higher rpm's, and want the "lesser" and "boring" smooth low-end power delivery. "The truth is, the turbo H4 is more powerful than the H6." In higher rpm's. As jwaters said, don't ignore the power bands. Yes, what Suby has done is no different than other manufacturers with turbo 4's and 6's in the same model (i.e. Audi, Snaab). "Yet, those that are uninformed..." Most potential buyers will not go back and forth on the engine stats like this, especially women. It is largely correlated with gender, age and spending power. Yes, they see the "6" and the supposed flagship. With relatively low, yet increasing, market penetration in the brand life cycle, Subaru is clearly attempting to expand its target demographic into the Acura/Nissan/Toyota/Audi/etc. market with a normally aspirated engine with more displacement and less of the "boy racer" rally sedan with a scoop. Branding is largely repetition and reputation. If someone who normally would not think of Subaru as an option, see's a smooth hood on the road and wonders what that is, you may have a potential customer. Maybe next time you'll attempt to understand the point instead of pulling a straw man by trying (failing) to shoot it down and immediately pointing to supporting arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertfoxaz Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I just for the life of me can't figure out why Subaru is so stingy with the color combinations on this model. Would it kill them to offer it in a light shade other than geriatric gold? The pearl white from the GT would be sweet. And how about offering the taupe & ebony interiors with all the exterior colors. There really is no reason why that trim level can't be had in the same colors as the other trim levels. It isn't going to cost Subaru any more money. It's almost like Subaru thinks the target demographic for the 3.0R is retirees. They like bronze and gold cars. Let's just hope they don't make landau tops available. I've already seen a few Chrylser 300s and Buicks with them, even though that's not a factory option, but the dealer must have added it. They look ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertfoxaz Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 It's probably more a factor of deleting the hood scoop in order to apply to a more broad US demographic. If you ask most adults who do not like Suby's why they feel that way, they'll usually point out the hood ... and then brand image. Whatever man, you're the expert. Most Subarus sold in this country don't have hood scoops. They've made a Legacy for several years without a hood scoop. It's called a 2.5i. Perhaps Subaru will make a GT without a hood scoop and maybe their sales will take off. I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Functional is interesting to us, but functional or aesthetic, most adults who would pay ~30k USD for a car don't like hood scoops due to the image. Just like some teenagers, etc. opt for aesthetic ones due to the image. The engine argument is valid if you intend to modify, but some want more low end smoothness and will never spend a dollar beyond maintenance. They also will rarely see the engine hit higher rpm's, and want the "lesser" and "boring" smooth low-end power delivery. "The truth is, the turbo H4 is more powerful than the H6." In higher rpm's. As jwaters said, don't ignore the power bands. Yes, what Suby has done is no different than other manufacturers with turbo 4's and 6's in the same model (i.e. Audi, Snaab). "Yet, those that are uninformed..." Most potential buyers will not go back and forth on the engine stats like this, especially women. It is largely correlated with gender, age and spending power. Yes, they see the "6" and the supposed flagship. With relatively low, yet increasing, market penetration in the brand life cycle, Subaru is clearly attempting to expand its target demographic into the Acura/Nissan/Toyota/Audi/etc. market with a normally aspirated engine with more displacement and less of the "boy racer" rally sedan with a scoop. Branding is largely repetition and reputation. If someone who normally would not think of Subaru as an option, see's a smooth hood on the road and wonders what that is, you may have a potential customer. Maybe next time you'll attempt to understand the point instead of pulling a straw man by trying (failing) to shoot it down and immediately pointing to supporting arguments. man, you sound like a pompous fag. at least learn how to spell your own location if you're going to be so gd condescending to others in your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwaters943 Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 man, you sound like a pompous fag. at least learn how to spell your own location if you're going to be so gd condescending to others in your posts. That was NOT cool, nor was it called for IMO. What's with all the personal attacks on this site? On a sidenote, I find it IMMENSELY entertaining that many people on this site throw around words like "fag" and "gay" so freely, especially considering the fact that Subaru seems to be the preferred vehicle of the gay community. Sounds like some of you are overcompensating. ....back on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Whatever man, you're the expert. Most Subarus sold in this country don't have hood scoops. They've made a Legacy for several years without a hood scoop. It's called a 2.5i. Perhaps Subaru will make a GT without a hood scoop and maybe their sales will take off. I doubt it. You just refuted your own point on the v6. Good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 man, you sound like a pompous fag. at least learn how to spell your own location if you're going to be so gd condescending to others in your posts. Funny thing is I just noticed the location misspelling. I truly think I misspelled my own city and that wasn't a typo... Good point! Thanks, I'll fix that. As for condescending, I don't see it that way at all. I responded to a dismissive attitude that followed up with supporting points. Perhaps your reactions are more a function of ignorance. "Pompous fag" ... Yep, you definitely seem real mature and are not ignorant at all. Back on point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Please watch the name calling. I'm all for a good debate... but let's keep this civil. To the OP... it sounds to me like the H6 is the better alternative for your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Smart people also know that acura is just honda, infinit is just nissan and lexus is just toyota True... but I would replace Smart.... with Informed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAINIAC SPEC B Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I have an 01 VDC Outback rated at 215 hp with 162K on it. I have been running 89 in it and the car still has a steady smooth pull when accelerating dispite it`s 3800 lb curb weight and this is with a 4 speed auto. I still average 24 mpg around town with this car. I imagine the newer 6 cylinders with a 5 speed auto would preform a little better. That being said comparing this car and my 07 Spec. B. are like compaing 2 different animals. In the performance department the Spec. B. ( same engine as the LGT ), is a lot more fun to drive and I average 27 mpg. around town. 93 by me is only 20 cents more per gal. than 87 which actually makes the turbo more economical to drive. So you have a choice to make smooth power or exhilarating power. Lucky me, I have the best of both worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viber Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I'm cool with all of that. I think modding your car is great. I just object to being told not to post on a site unless I plan on doing mods. Just ignore those posts. I do. My LGT is going to be bone stock till I trade it off. I like my insurance rates, and factory warranty just fine. When someone asks about 3.0 vs LGT, my answer is related to car for car, driven off the lot. Not 3.0 vs LGT + $4000 in mods. Because to me that translate to a 3.0 vs new G35, TL-S or IS 250, or a USD BMW 3xxxi. Unless you're totally tickled by tinkering, whenever I hear about mods, all I see is the value being taken out of the LGT. That's just me though. Do your thing. Have fun. I really don't like the exterior styling much at all, and Subaru isn't considered a 'premium' brand name by anyone. Really depends on where you live. Most of my clients are in C.A. and could give two shits about Subaru anything. Here in Utah you'd think LGT's, and are made out of the gold. Strong resell, and never on the market used for longer than a day. Very popular among bread winning dads, and at home among other AWD sport sedans in and about the $40k and under range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwaters943 Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Thanks everyone for their feedback/help. FWIW, my friend decided to go with something a bit more fuel-efficient and picked up a new 1st-gen TSX. I have to say, having never driven a Legacy until tagging along with my friend and his wife, I was thoroughly impressed. If Subaru were to ever drop the 3.6l H6 tuned to about 275hp in the Legacy I would definitely be tempted. (Nothing against the H4 Turbo, but after 2 turbo VW's I'm over turbo-lag.....give me a smooth NA six-cylinder anyday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmako Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Well, having owned a 2G TL before the Subie, you'll love the TSX. Join http://www.acurazine.com, as those guys are alright. I have a spec B H6, and I love the smooth power delivery. I have nothing against the turbo, but the 3.0 seems to be more for my style of driving. Would I like more power? Does a bear shit in the woods? But I knew buying the car that I couldn't do much without spending a huge amount of $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeblow Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 You do realize that this thread is 2 years old, right? It's cool; I'm with the band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmako Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Wow, my bad. Must be from too much work. Sorry about resurrecting an old thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boymk123 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Honestly, the H6 is a nice engine for someone hwo doesn't care too much about aftermarket tuning and is satisfied with theH6 power. It's a sweet engine I vote for 3.0, no more lag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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