considering OBXT purchase

[Prime Power]

You could call it a weak point, but imho it's not that weak. I really do enjoy driving it. It's just my opinion, but when I get to drive it instead of my avalanche I do really enjoy it.

[Guest]

^ It's all relative. Outback sure handles great compared to some boat truck.

[ScoobySTi07]

Hopefully I can settle this debate having done the off and on road thing with and without sways and MR coilovers.

 

I have an '05 Outback XT. Currently it is set up with Whiteline front and rear sways and a full set of MR outback specific coilovers.

 

Originally I had it bone stock and coming from Colorado was able to take on moderately difficult jeep trails (i.e. trails no road car would make it up) with a bit of effort, patience and skill (been doing the 4 wheeling thing for a while now). Granted guys in the jeeps would pass me going the other way looking at me like "how the f**k did he get that thing up here". On the road the car had a ton of body roll leaning almost as much as an SUV on the curves but wouldn't flip over like one would at those speeds. Also the car would oscillate like a slinky over bumps and dips.

 

Step 1 adding front and rear sways. Ideally you would add coilovers first then sways because you can dial in the style of suspension you want better that way but MR hadn't come out come out with their coilovers yet so I did what I could. Also many people are just happy with just replacing the rear sway. It’s about personal taste (i.e. buy the rear then if you still want less roll buy the front). Off road the car was definitely stiffer and you notice a loss of some articulation. On road the sways make a good deal of difference in the body roll around curves. The car stays flatter and fast in both entry and exit. Only problem is you don't solve the vertical oscillation problem over bumps.

 

Step 2 Megan Racing Outback specific coilovers. While they are made specifically for Outbacks, the two main differences from the MR Legacy GT version are they inverted front shock and basically just lengthened the damper housing to allow the coilover to "extend" to Outback height. They sacrifice shock travel to give you ride height adjustability down to Legacy GT and up to 1" over stock Outback height. As such articulation is greatly impacted but you still have the ride height advantage so the trail can still be kind of nasty but not as bad as with the regular stock coilovers. On road the world is your oyster. Depending on how you set the preload, your ride can be silky smooth with some roll or so hard you'll feel everything but the car will handle like you're on rails. You can set them down low (just watch your CV boots) or up high and the handling stays for the most part minus the effects of a higher CG.

 

Bottom line if you want to take on some gnarly jeep trails but still want a car stay stock. If you’d rather have a road machine that you can lift up when you do that weekend or two of camping go with the MR coilovers and buy the Firestone lifetime alignment deal you’ll love them. Anywhere in between you’ll have to decide for yourself. Currently I’m in Kansas and don’t get to do much of either so now I’m concentrating on going faster in a straight line.

 

When I get back home from work I’ll post a picture comparison of the stock and MR coilovers so you can see the difference.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

Hopefully I can settle this debate having done the off and on road thing with and without sways and MR coilovers..

 

Great info, Scooby...thanks for weighing-in.

 

I never would've thought to do the coilovers first, but what you say makes sense. Just a question; from your comments, it sounds like you need to have the alignment redone every time you change the level on the coilovers--or did I miss something?

 

Tim

[Wrxdan2002]

Don't forget about the smaller brakes, lack of a bolt on TBE, the stupid body cladding, & slow steering.

 

I don't mind the clutch and If you use your roof racks I think the OB has a better set up

[Diggs753]

MR is the only choice for the OB.The handling is fine but after a while you want better or more.jUST like the power.I like the Perrin Sways.

[ScoobySTi07]

Great info, Scooby...thanks for weighing-in.

 

I never would've thought to do the coilovers first, but what you say makes sense. Just a question; from your comments, it sounds like you need to have the alignment redone every time you change the level on the coilovers--or did I miss something?

 

Tim

Yep every time you change the ride height more then say a 1/4-1/2 inch I make sure to get an alignment because the camber gets thrown off.

 

Don't forget about the smaller brakes, lack of a bolt on TBE, the stupid body cladding, & slow steering.

 

I don't mind the clutch and If you use your roof racks I think the OB has a better set up

Yeah that sums up a lot of the differences from the GT. I'm upgrading the brakes, don't care about the TBE because stock cans lose you 10hp at most and I'd rather have a quiet car, I like the awesome body cladding (its armor against rocks and trees ) and well the slow steering does kind of suck.

 

Roof racks are great except when the factory rack breaks and your 40 lb downhill bike slams into the side of your car. I recommend some Yak Lowriders or Thule Crossroads for carrying anything with a moment on it.

 

MR is the only choice for the OB.The handling is fine but after a while you want better or more.jUST like the power.I like the Perrin Sways.

Sways will vary and yeah you'll probably get tired of the sea sickness after a while.

 

Oh and comparison photos as promised.

[NHMTNS]

Thanks for all the replies. Although I live in a rural area and spend a lot of time driving in snow and up steep hills, I don't think I'd ever use an OBXT to go off-roading. I'm just looking to eliminate the body roll and squishy handling I've read about. Sounds like sways and coilovers adjusted correctly would do the trick.

 

As for the roof rack, I used Thule products back in the 80's and then switched over to Yakima ever since. I'm very familiar with this aspect of vehicles. I vary my setup frequently, depending on the season. Here's a few random pics:

 

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/nhmtns/Acadia/DSC00128.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/nhmtns/Acadia/DSC00118.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/nhmtns/DSCF1850.jpg

[Bimmer]

Don't forget about the smaller brakes, lack of a bolt on TBE, the stupid body cladding, & slow steering.

 

+1, but do you have to rub it in like this! Happily, this is my wife's car we're talking about...

 

BTW, what's a TBE?

 

And the slow steering doesn't bother me. I wouldn't have noticed it except that others have mentioned it, and now that I know it's "slow" it only occurs to me that I'm really turning the wheel a lot at parking speeds.

 

Ben

[ScoobySTi07]

TBE = Turbo Back Exhaust (i.e. downpipe, midpipe, y section and mufflers)

 

It's not that you can't do a full exhaust, you can. You just have to either go with longer hangers (not the best idea) or cut out the rear bumper/get the JDM bumper. You can, however, do the entire exhaust sans the mufflers and you only lose around 10hp give or take a little depending on how extensive your mods are.

[rjundi]

My suggestion is arranging an extended test drive(few hours) with a dealer of a OBXT 5MT. They let my wife borrow a 05 LGT Wagon albeit 5eat for half a day which made the sale of a located LGT 5MT wagon.

[Garandman]

Thanks for all the replies. Although I live in a rural area and spend a lot of time driving in snow and up steep hills, I don't think I'd ever use an OBXT to go off-roading. I'm just looking to eliminate the body roll and squishy handling I've read about. Sounds like sways and coilovers adjusted correctly would do the trick.//

I've since burned out the coilovers. Have you seen the thread on the JDM Bilstein kit?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111880

[jmad]

I have an 05 outback XT and did not like the stock handling at all. I added MR coilovers and went to 245/45/18 tires and that improved the on road handling a great deal. Next move is sway bars and I will be pretty content. It is a great vehicle for my needs and I would not have purchased an lgt if I were to do it again. If the suspension parts above were not available, however, I would definitely not purchased the outback.

[dasbigunit]

Ditto... i have an 07 OBXT with MR Coilovers, Cobb Sways f/r, 245/45R18's and Stage 2 on the motor, also added LGT calipers DB brakes and EBC Pads.

I would do it all again.

Well, not really, I'd probably just get the new STi since it's a nice little hatch.

[holter95]

TinGin - +1 on the clutch. I've always felt Subarus were grabby clutches, and the OBXT/LGT's is especially stiff. Even after owning mine for 2.5 years, I still feel like a noob doofus on 1 out of every 5 launches if I get the slightest bit lazy. Yet, I can get into any VW/Audi and drive it like a champ all day long. Also, the MT gearbox is far from a precise instrument, even with the STS kit. But if you're used to driving WRXs, this isn't news.

 

Hindsight being 20/20 I would have bought a LGT wagon for the crisper handling - most notably the better dive/squat control. You can tame the body roll beast reasonably well with sways (I have IPD front/rear), but unless you pony up for the spendy and maintenance-intensive MR Coilovers, you'll still be left with a half-baked suspension. I'll be putting on the IPD HD rear springs and new KYB struts all around this fall. I expect incremental improvement, but nothing earth shattering. I like the looks of the OB and appreciate the slightly taller H-point (easier ingress/egress), but for the VERY few times I ever actually need the ground clearance, I'd readily trade it for the better LGT handling. That's based on MY needs and desires.

 

The OB was really tailored for boulevard family cruising, capable of tackling the occasional two-track venture. The turbo motor makes it a raging stoplight-to-stoplight beast, but ultimately overpowers the chassis IMHO, because let's face it - if you buy the turbo, you wanna go fast.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

TinGin - +1 on the clutch. I've always felt Subarus were grabby clutches, and the OBXT/LGT's is especially stiff. Even after owning mine for 2.5 years, I still feel like a noob doofus on 1 out of every 5 launches if I get the slightest bit lazy. Yet, I can get into any VW/Audi and drive it like a champ all day long. Also, the MT gearbox is far from a precise instrument, even with the STS kit. But if you're used to driving WRXs, this isn't news.

 

Hindsight being 20/20 I would have bought a LGT wagon for the crisper handling - most notably the better dive/squat control. You can tame the body roll beast reasonably well with sways (I have IPD front/rear), but unless you pony up for the spendy and maintenance-intensive MR Coilovers, you'll still be left with a half-baked suspension. I'll be putting on the IPD HD rear springs and new KYB struts all around this fall. I expect incremental improvement, but nothing earth shattering. I like the looks of the OB and appreciate the slightly taller H-point (easier ingress/egress), but for the VERY few times I ever actually need the ground clearance, I'd readily trade it for the better LGT handling. That's based on MY needs and desires.

 

The OB was really tailored for boulevard family cruising, capable of tackling the occasional two-track venture. The turbo motor makes it a raging stoplight-to-stoplight beast, but ultimately overpowers the chassis IMHO, because let's face it - if you buy the turbo, you wanna go fast.

 

Holter-

 

You summed it up beautifully. Looks like we're on the same page. I had actually been shopping the LGT sedan to replace the '91 5-Series I had just sold, but fell in love with the idea of the OB since we had dogs, and were just starting to talk 'kids', etc...unfortunately the poor suspension was an oversight on my behalf. It's been great in the snow, great on the beach and from a utilitarian standpoint, a good, all-around car...just not all that enjoyable to drive.

 

To your point re: Audi/VW, I'm with ya'; I only wish Audi/VW could get it's "quality" issues sorted out and it's dealer network more attuned to the concept of "customer service", as generallly speaking, it's a lot tougher to find a "good" Audi dealer than it is finding a unicorn . ps: I am loving the new '09 Audi A4 Avant...I just don't trust it!

 

Being my first Subie, I can't say I totally regret the purchase, but if I look back to having driven a Saab 92x, WRX and even my dad's old '94 XT...they all drove and handled a lot better. I just think SoA tried to make the OB "too many things to too many buyers" rather than sticking to what they do well.

 

FWIW, are you dead-set on the KYB's? I'm only asking because every car I've had KYBs on, I was very disappointed in their longevity and quality. Bilstein, however, is at the opposite end of the spectrum and has a wonderful warranty. If you searched around for people who've used both, my feeling is you'll likely hear the same thing from the majority of them, too. Just my $.02. Did you happen to see the Bilstein thread here? Very tempting, 'cept for the price (but then again, I have no idea what it'll cost to replace my shocks/struts with OEM crap once they go...by comparison, the cost of the Bilsteain set may NOT be that crazy!).

 

I'm about to pull the trigger on a RSB...I might just drop the coin and go with the stiffest I can find, rather than my orig plan of taking my buddie's old stock LGT sedan RSB for free (which is still supposed to be an upgrade from my stock RSB). Is there any real improvement with a FSB?

 

Sorry for the long reply...but good stuff!

 

Rgds,Tim G.

[holter95]

FWIW, are you dead-set on the KYB's? I'm only asking because every car I've had KYBs on, I was very disappointed in their longevity and quality. Bilstein, however, is at the opposite end of the spectrum and has a wonderful warranty. If you searched around for people who've used both, my feeling is you'll likely hear the same thing from the majority of them, too. Just my $.02. Did you happen to see the Bilstein thread here? Very tempting, 'cept for the price (but then again, I have no idea what it'll cost to replace my shocks/struts with OEM crap once they go...by comparison, the cost of the Bilsteain set may NOT be that crazy!).

I'm only dead set on KYBs for lack of other options. The Bilstein (JDM) kit costs upwards of $1200 which is stiff money (not that Bilsteins aren't good, but I don't have that kind of coin to spend on a wear item). I don't want to rebuild MRs every year, and so far KYB appears to be the only other aftermarket alternative. All I know is I don't want to go back to stock.

 

The FSB doesn't make a huge difference, but I suspect it will help to keep the car neutral[ish] when I stiffen the rear springs.

 

The new Audis are the hotness. If practicality and price be damned, I'd have an A5 in my driveway. But since I see my friend driving a dealer rental more often than his Audi, I'm scared too.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

I'm only dead set on KYBs for lack of other options. The Bilstein (JDM) kit costs upwards of $1200 which is stiff money (not that Bilsteins aren't good, but I don't have that kind of coin to spend on a wear item). I don't want to rebuild MRs every year, and so far KYB appears to be the only other aftermarket alternative. All I know is I don't want to go back to stock..

 

Yeah, the only way I'd be able to make the Bilstein setup fly here is if it ended up being only a few hundred more than what OEM replacement shocks/struts/springs end up costing. Otherwise, I'll likely be stuck with OEM again.

 

Out of curiosity, what's the cost estimate for the KYB setup? I cannot recall...

 

The new Audis are the hotness. If practicality and price be damned, I'd have an A5 in my driveway. But since I see my friend driving a dealer rental more often than his Audi, I'm scared too.

 

Actually, the prices on a **couple** of the Audi models are not that crazy; sure you can get close to $50K if you load-up an A4 Avant, but you can keep the price in the mid-to-upper 30's and have a very nicely optioned car. Apparently the new A4's got a lot more legroom and the new 2.0L turbo motor puts out 211 hp and a very nice around 250+ ft/lbs of torque. I also like the gas mileage rated at around 27/28 highway. I've never gotten more than 23 highway on my OBXT, even driving like an old guy.

 

Allegedly, starting with the 2009 MY, Audi has put forth some significant effort into new "quality initiatives", but time will tell. Seems to me they've been building cars with moderate-to-poor reliability for a very long time...IMO, that's not something an auto manufacturer can change overnight. I hope they do, because I love them so.....

 

Tim

[holter95]

Out of curiosity, what's the cost estimate for the KYB setup? I cannot recall...

 

KYBs run about $250 for all 4 corners. Pretty reasonable.

 

I've been able to eke 25 mpg on the interstate, but only at legal speeds and probably with a tailwind. Up to 26 on the byways.

 

OT: I test drove the Q5 and that's a mangificent CUV if I were to sell my soul to that market segment. Excellent handling, perfect packaging (for my needs), surprising tow capacity (4400 lb) and a sublime interior. MPG isn't too bad if you're comparing it to an OBXT.