tachikaze Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I'm in the market for an AWD sports coupe/sedan and, to my surprise, recently discovered that Subaru actually makes one. This is going to be a long-term "adventure" car for travelling all around California, not a daily driver unless/until I move to a new seasonally traction-challenged locale like the Santa Cruz mountains or Colorado. Doing my research, I joined a Subaru VIP affiliate last week, so I'll be looking for real around June I guess. So the first question is: when will Subaru close out the 08s next year? How good is the sportshift-5? if it's close to DSG then I might just go for it since I'll be keeping my Miata for sporty driving. What's the real-world diff between the 2.5 turbo and the 3.0? The 2.5 is specced to have more low-end torque apparently, and I'm more interested in lane-changing / pull-out acceleration rather than top speed, so I'm looking for the power plant that is the more civilized and does what I tell it to do without lag or confusion. Being a video game nut, anything with "Spec.B" in it catches my attention, but the $5000 premium over stock GT manual seems a bit much, especially since I don't want built-in nav and do like the white and blue paints & interiors more. But I *do* want Dinan-class road-keeping, and am willing to pay a bit to get as close to that as is reasonable. From my research, the mechanical diffs between GT and SpecB are: 6-speed tranny Rear Torsen LSD VDC standard Al suspension, of course 18" wheels Spec.B Qs: What bennies does the 6MT bring for the extra shift? From my reading, it does apparently add a shift between 0 & 60, but OTOH 6th does seem to give more overdrive, which is good since this will be my long-distance weekend trek driver. Being a Quattro fan I always hear good things about Torsens, but is there that big a diff between the diff choices? This will also be my "ski trip" car, so if the difference is significant I'd also like to know how much is involved in swapping in a Torsen on a non-Spec.B., [and whether this is even possible on an automatic]. VDC . . . this is probably a dumb question but can this be a straight-forward after-market add-on expense or do I have to choose at purchase time? How much would it cost to mod a base GT's suspension to surpass the spec.B? I wouldn't mind a little lowering, either, but the suspension mods would seem to be more of a long-term thing to start doing after the OEM stuff leaves warranty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 So the first question is: when will Subaru close out the 08s next year? '09 should be in the dealers by July/Aug. But you can get good deals on '08's now. The best price I have seen is ~$25.5k for LGT 5MT. Prcing is really regional, you might or might not need the VIP program to get the best price. How good is the sportshift-5? if it's close to DSG then I might just go for it since I'll be keeping my Miata for sporty driving. :lol: No. It's an automatic-automatic, not manual-matic like the DSG. What's the real-world diff between the 2.5 turbo and the 3.0? The 2.5 is specced to have more low-end torque apparently, and I'm more interested in lane-changing / pull-out acceleration rather than top speed, so I'm looking for the power plant that is the more civilized and does what I tell it to do without lag or confusion. In stock form not much difference in performance, unless you are at altitude then the turbo will be faster. The H6 is smoother but the 2.5 is where the aftermarket and big power gain is at if you want to mod. Being a video game nut, anything with "Spec.B" in it catches my attention, but the $5000 premium over stock GT manual seems a bit much, especially since I don't want built-in nav and do like the white and blue paints & interiors more. But I *do* want Dinan-class road-keeping, and am willing to pay a bit to get as close to that as is reasonable. where did the Dinan-class road-keeping come from? I'm asuming you are talking about the BMW's Dinan tuner? The spec B uses the Bilstein suspension, BTW that's where the B in spec B comes from. Pretty lame IMHO. There are lots of aftermarket springs, shocks and coilovers that would help the LGT handle better than the stock spec B. Unless you really want the 6MT, everything else you can get aftermarket. What bennies does the 6MT bring for the extra shift? From my reading, it does apparently add a shift between 0 & 60, but OTOH 6th does seem to give more overdrive, which is good since this will be my long-distance weekend trek driver. The 5MT and 6MT has the same final gear ratio at 3.9. The 5MT's fifth gear is 0.738 and the 6MT's 6th gear is 0.707... You will get lower rev in the 6MT in the top gear but not by much and not enough to make much of a difference in the MPG if that's what you are thinking. VDC . . . this is probably a dumb question but can this be a straight-forward after-market add-on expense or do I have to choose at purchase time? There is no aftermarket add on that's similar to the VDC at this time. It's better to just order it with the car. How much would it cost to mod a base GT's suspension to surpass the spec.B? I wouldn't mind a little lowering, either, but the suspension mods would seem to be more of a long-term thing to start doing after the OEM stuff leaves warranty... The most economical way is the Megan coil-overs for ~$1000. Suspension mod is probably the least likely thing to get you into trouble with the warranty. The most likely thing a coil-over could break is itself, which is not cover by the Subaru's warranty anyway. Power adders like the AP and turbo-back exhaust are far more likely to void your warranty but it's really dealer dependent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edkwon Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 So the first question is: when will Subaru close out the 08s next year? No idea, but mid-late summer sounds about right to pounce on closer deals. How good is the sportshift-5? if it's close to DSG then I might just go for it since I'll be keeping my Miata for sporty driving. Ive tried the sportshift-5 on the 3.0R, its not that great or quick, and doesn't even come close to DSG in shift quickness or fun. Its basically paddles attached to an automatic. What's the real-world diff between the 2.5 turbo and the 3.0? The 2.5 is specced to have more low-end torque apparently, and I'm more interested in lane-changing / pull-out acceleration rather than top speed, so I'm looking for the power plant that is the more civilized and does what I tell it to do without lag or confusion. You want the most obvious real-world difference? 2.5 turbo = easily power tunability, 3.0 NA = not very easy. Again, my test drive of the 3.0 R, i was not really that impressed with the off the line torque of the larger displacement NA engine, and stepping on the gas, i never really felt much of a rush in accel. It's basically steady power. So basically 3.0 = no lag, but not much rush or excitement with accel. 6-speed tranny Rear Torsen LSD VDC standard Al suspension, of course 18" wheels Spec.B Qs: What bennies does the 6MT bring for the extra shift? From my reading, it does apparently add a shift between 0 & 60, but OTOH 6th does seem to give more overdrive, which is good since this will be my long-distance weekend trek driver. Being a Quattro fan I always hear good things about Torsens, but is there that big a diff between the diff choices? This will also be my "ski trip" car, so if the difference is significant I'd also like to know how much is involved in swapping in a Torsen on a non-Spec.B., [and whether this is even possible on an automatic]. VDC . . . this is probably a dumb question but can this be a straight-forward after-market add-on expense or do I have to choose at purchase time? Youve done your homework on the differences, if you dont want to pay the added premium, then dont get the spec B, save yourself some money and buy a 5 MT GT. You save a bit of money on aftermarket wheels, suspension and sat nav. As far as the VDC is concerned, my practical driving experience in real world /non-track conditions. Ive left it on all the time and to be honest it never kicks in or interferes with my driving. I suspect i'd have to push the car really hard (like tight auto-x course or drive it like i want to crash it) to feel it kick in. Basically, unless you drive like a maniac, i don't think you'll miss not having VDC. And no, i dont think its a dealer installed option. Its a standard feature on the spec B like the 6 MT. Im not going to express an opinion on the 6MT, i like having a 6 speed a lot, esp for the top gear cruising, but wether there is a really performance advantage is the subject of endless threads and debates, and i will not get into that arguement as I dont really care either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA08LGT Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I wanted to comment on the power difference between the 2.5 GT, and the 3.0R. I debated this on several test drives, and in my mind. I drive a lot for work. I have always driven a 6 cylinder. ( not a boxer 6) Ultimately I chose the 2.5 GT for shear fun to drive factor. I am also a aftermarket junkie. I enjoy the fact that I can tune the motor in ways that will not void my warranty, and then really have fun once the warranty is up. I have the 5 speed LGT only because my wife refuses to learn a manual tranny. (even though she rarely drives my cars) I do enjoy the manual shift, but it will never do justice to a manual tranny. The downshifting is better than the upshifting. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 As far as the VDC is concerned, my practical driving experience in real world /non-track conditions. Ive left it on all the time and to be honest it never kicks in or interferes with my driving. I suspect i'd have to push the car really hard (like tight auto-x course or drive it like i want to crash it) to feel it kick in. Basically, unless you drive like a maniac, i don't think you'll miss not having VDC. And no, i dont think its a dealer installed option. Its a standard feature on the spec B like the 6 MT. I took my car into the dealer for some warranty work and I got a '08 OBXT 5EAT as a loaner. There was just happen to be a snow storm that day. Driving my 5MT and the 5EAT VDC back to back and I can tell you I felt the difference. The 5EAT with VDC definitely feels a lot more stable in the snow than my car. But like you said for day-to-day driving in the dry you will probably never notice any difference or need it. The VDC is also standard with the 5EAT on LGT or the 3.0R Limited but not for 5MT... I don't really understand that because the '08 WRX 5MT comes standard with the VDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I have the 5 speed LGT only because my wife refuses to learn a manual tranny. (even though she rarely drives my cars) I do enjoy the manual shift, but it will never do justice to a manual tranny. The downshifting is better than the upshifting. Both the manual and automatic are 5 speed, so saying you have a 5 speed LGT is really not as specific as you intended. Generally people on this forum short hand the automatic as 5EAT and the stick as 5MT. The rev-matching down-shifting in the 5EAT is pretty nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tachikaze Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 where did the Dinan-class road-keeping come from? In a previous life a housemate modded his 5-class with Dinan, and just this week a coworker demo'd his Dinan 3 coupe for me. Very impressive stick compared to my stock Miata LS. The 5EAT with VDC definitely feels a lot more stable in the snow than my car This is very important info for me, since I'm getting this car to be able to GO into tricky traction situations. (What really prompted this AWD coupe quest was seeing all the poor schlubs putting on chains on Highway 80 last winter while being driven up in an A3 Quattro). The rev-matching down-shifting in the 5EAT is pretty nice. That's good to know. Best advice is probably to get myself to a dealer and see firsthand. I know an automatic can't match a DSG, but all I'm interested in is drivability (not hot-rodding per se), and smooth downshifts on demand is usually where autos drop the ball IME. Past few car rentals have been CVT, and, frankly, for long town & country driving I wouldn't mind going auto now as long as the power delivery is reactive enough for emergency & general get-up-to-speed needs. Thanks, all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdoggydog Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Did you check out the sticky on how to get 2% below dealer invoice? It worked for many of the members here, including myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Did you check out the sticky on how to get 2% below dealer invoice? It worked for many of the members here, including myself. Doing my research, I joined a Subaru VIP affiliate last week, so I'll be looking for real around June I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 AFAIK auto AWD > manual AWD or so I've read around here. Somebody correct me on this? Might wanna look into that as well because it might be a factor. If you're willing to give up the performance and fun factor of a manual transmission and if it is true that the AWD on the automatic is a little better, might wanna go with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 AFAIK auto AWD > manual AWD or so I've read around here. Somebody correct me on this? Might wanna look into that as well because it might be a factor. If you're willing to give up the performance and fun factor of a manual transmission and if it is true that the AWD on the automatic is a little better, might wanna go with that 5EAT comes with VDC while VDC is not availabe with the 5MT if that's what you mean. Otherwise I don't think the AWD system for the 5EAT is any better than the 5MT system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenzo Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 VDC is available with a MT... the 6MT in the Spec.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 In stock form not much difference in performance i would submit that there is a much larger difference in performance, particularly when you consider the 3.0R is only available in automatic. significantly greater torque + less drivetrain loss + driver determined shift points = big difference in performance. no way the US 3.0R ever sees 5.1/13.7 in a R&T mag test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 i would submit that there is a much larger difference in performance, particularly when you consider the 3.0R is only available in automatic. significantly greater torque + less drivetrain loss + driver determined shift points = big difference in performance. no way the US 3.0R ever sees 5.1/13.7 in a R&T mag test. Fine, there is no significant difference between the 3.0R 5EAT and 2.5GT 5EAT. There is however difference in performance between 5EAT and 5MT regardless of engine choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 just go and test drive them. it's personal preference. I have a 5EAT and i love it. I'm selling my car and buying an 08 STI hatch in June. However, would I still prefer having my 5EAT? sure. I'd prefer to keep them both actually. I love MT and never cared for AT much until I bought my 05 LGT. I love it, it's a fun car and the person buying it is my tech who builds 9 sec cars. He also prefers MT, however now after helping me build my 5EAT, he loves it too so he wants it when I pick up my STI. I would love to have a true DSG box in one of these cars (and no, I don't want an EvoX) if it came with it. BTW, my parents have a Caddy STS... very nice indeed. i will say, my LGT has plenty of get up and go for those times I need to "punch it" or get on the gas. Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawkins20 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I picked up a 08 LGT 5EAT about 6 wks ago. I have driven manuals my whole life except for one accord 4spd Auto, and went with the auto for a few reasons: my fiance has no idea or intention to learn how to drive stick, my car often gets moved by the valet guys in the garage of my condo, and the VDC came with the Auto. While I haven't noticed the VDC doing its thing yet, one reason I got the LGT is to be my skimobile, and therefore I wanted every advantage I could get while stormchasing. The auto is not perfect, and sometimes I wish I had a manual for the fun factor, but it is infinitely better than the crappy auto that was on the accord. Downshifting is great, quick and the rev matching feature is nice. I actually use the paddles to downshift quite a bit, especially if I am preparing to pass or corner, rather than nailing the gas and letting the passing gear do its thing. Upshifts are smooth, but manual upshifts have a slight delay between hititng the paddle and the actual upshift. Given its use for daily driving in city traffic and weekend runs to ski country, I am very happy with my choice. And even with the stock devil spawned RE92 tires, I have had no problem on snow or wet downpour saturated roads so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 keep in mind that there will be a model revision coming out in 2010. So, if you don't want to be driving the 'old' kind, I would suggest waiting the extra year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tachikaze Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 2009 might be the best then, since IME all car companies eventually end up wrecking the classics -- or their styling at least -- with the 4th or 5th gen revisions. Mk3 RX-7, Mk3 Supra, Mk4 Prelude, Mk2 Integra, Mk4 3-series . . .R.I.P.! Yeah, I was born 10 years too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 2009 might be the best then, since IME all car companies eventually end up wrecking the classics -- or their styling at least -- with the 4th or 5th gen revisions. Mk3 RX-7, Mk3 Supra, Mk4 Prelude, Mk2 Integra, Mk4 3-series . . .R.I.P.! Yeah, I was born 10 years too late Dude, that just means you can get the cars you want for cheaper. If he waits an extra year and doesn't like the 2010, that just means that he's going to get an even better deal on an 09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Huh, it's a bit of a stretch to call the LGT a "classic"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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