Yellow Fog Lights

[GYD23]

Here is an interesting article on yellow fogs.

 

There are many more like this if you look it up.

 

And don't try to say that there are a ton of documents that show yellow fogs do work because all of those documents just choose to leave out the facts in order to justify why they like yellow. Plus if yellow was really that effective then why do 95% of cars that come with fog lite have white?

 

 

 

Personally I do not care i just like the look.And if you are going for the look then why not have it when they are off as well.

 

 

 

Either way you look at it there is one thing to keep in mind. The only way to have a yellow light is with film or a filter. and if that is what you want then make sure you understand that you will cut the amount of light that will pass through.

 

 

 

 

 

This article is provided as a public service by the Geophysical Institute, University of Alaska Fairbanks, in cooperation with the UAF research community. Larry Gedney is a seismologist at the Institute.

 

I was asked the other day why fog lights were yellow. When I couldn't come up with an answer, I started asking around and discovered, to my surprise, that apparently nobody else could either.

Skiers, shooters and other outdoor types have long known that yellow goggles or glasses enhance outdoor vision. This is because the yellow lenses filter out the blue part of the spectrum and increase the contrast of a scene. But does the same thing hold the other way around? With the goggles, we are filtering reflected light entering our eyes, but is it possible to illuminate something with yellow light and achieve similar results? The answer, apparently, is no (which is likely to raise strong objections from people who have been using yellow fog lights for years).

For expert advice, I contacted the Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory (CRREL) on Fort Wainwright. Captain John Craig of that group then arranged to have a computer search made on the subject of light penetration in fog and mist from CRREL's headquarters in Hanover, New Hampshire. As a result, I obtained a list of over 200 references and abstracts of articles published by researchers all over the world.

Not a single one asserted that yellow light has superior penetrating qualities, but several specifically stated that it did not. To quote from one Russian article, for example:

"Investigations and practices of automobile traffic do not confirm any substantial advantages of yellow light over white light. The advantages ascribed to it may take place only in very thin fog or may be subjectively received by some drivers owing to their individual peculiarities of vision. Therefore, it does not make any sense to switch over headlights to yellow light, although the use of yellow light in special fog lights does not raise any objections." End of quote. The phrasing is quaint, but the meaning is clear.

I had long thought that the yellow sodium-vapor street lamps that are becoming common were used specifically because they cut through fog better. I found out that there actually is a specific reason for their use, but that it is because they operate on only about half the power of conventional lamps.

So, unless you just happen to like yellow, save your money and forget about so-called "fog-lights." They don't exist.

Here are two more links if you want more.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/light_color/light_color.html

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1999-07/932144187.Ph.r.html

[bnguyenbb6]

Alot of prelude owners retrofit IS300 yellow capsules. Has anyone tried this? The previous owner put yellow fogs in my car,whether bulb or capsule, I have no idea. Just curious about the capsules.

[Gire]

GIRE - Thanks for the input. I am definitely looking to go with the colored bulb not a film. I was thinking the PIAA not for their brand name only but because I have heard they have great longevity. I am willing to pay more if the bulb lasts significantly longer. Do you know if the bulbs you recommend last as long or longer or is it a non-issue?

 

 

In my opinion, they are fog lights, they should last the same, as you use them only once in a while... Hopefully you don't plan on turning on your fogs every time you drive your car (and if you do, I will leave this thread, call you a n00b ricer, and never offer H3 advice again!)

[liljay794]

Just buy the film, wiggle the fog light covers off, and slap it on there. Looks perfect.

[outahere]

...........Plus if yellow was really that effective then why do 95% of cars that come with fog lite have white?........

 

Because USA regulations do not allow yellow fog lights.

[TSiWRX]

^ outahere, do you know of the legality of the situation, when local/state codes/ordinances/laws allow for such, versus federal?

 

My local state codes allow for the use of yellow/amber specifically on the front-of-vehicle for foul-weather auxiliary lighting.

 

Which one has higher authority? How does this play out in out-of-state travel?

 

---

 

And as for GYD's post, everyone, you'll note that outahere hasn't said that any of that's wrong.

 

That's because it's right.

 

"Yellow/amber" lighting, for foul-weather use, is simply, as many here have said, a personal-preference issue. To some people's eyes/brain, it can help a bit with depth perception, lane/curb-delineation, etc. To some, there's less perceived "backscatter glare, too."

 

But that's all just individual perceptions, and what you should keep in mind is that even though such factors may increase your subjective driving comfort in such conditions, you really should still exercise proper and due caution, because even though you *think* you're seeing better, that's not necessarily the case, when you pursue quantitative means of measuring your actual driving performance under such conditions.....

 

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/handle/2027.42/49453

 

^ Thanks to outahere for leading me to this.

 

Yes, I use yellow fogs (as outahere is so kindly guiding me through, over the past week or so, to make the wiring safer), overwattage (85W) ones, at that.

 

I understand and know well that yes, the "yellow" takes away from the absolute "lumens-on-road" (i.e. it's not as bright as unmolested "white" light).

 

I also know and understand that I should, despite increased driving comfort and a heightened sense of confidence behind the wheel, under such conditions, to slow my ass down!

 

heytigger, your thoughts regarding "yellow" fogs isn't invalid - it's actually why many do choose to go with this color, for such use.

 

You've stated, yourself, that you like this color better, under such conditions.

 

That's fine.

 

But don't, for one minute, think that the coated bulbs is any better (or worse) than the film-covering. It's essentially just film that covers the bulb, versus film that's covering the lens - and either way, you'll lose lighting output, compared to an unmolested setup.

 

Getting yellow fogs for your own comfort/preference? That's definitely fine.

 

But don't think that you're actually going to perform better because of it - and by all means, slow-down your road-speed, as well as exercise more due-caution under such conditions, for the extra subjective comfort may cause you to drive faster/more aggressively than conditions would truly allow.

 

Oh - and hey, add a REAR FOG!!!

[outahere]

^ outahere, do you know of the legality of the situation, when local/state codes/ordinances/laws allow for such, versus federal?

 

My local state codes allow for the use of yellow/amber specifically on the front-of-vehicle for foul-weather auxiliary lighting.........

 

After further research, you are correct. The yellow restriction applies to headlamps, not fog lamps. SAE standard J583 covers front fog lamps. I tried to find the text of this standard online, but it is only available after paying a fee. State vehicle codes I read online refer to J583 as allowing colors from white to amber.

[outahere]

.............But that's all just individual perceptions, and what you should keep in mind is that even though such factors may increase your subjective driving comfort in such conditions, you really should still exercise proper and due caution, because even though you *think* you're seeing better, that's not necessarily the case, when you pursue quantitative means of measuring your actual driving performance under such conditions.....

 

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/handle/2027.42/49453

 

 

From that report:

 

"Comparisons of fog lamps used alone ... to low-beam lamps used alone

... indicated that the fog lamps provided greater visibility than the low-beam

lamps at very short range (10 m), but that at longer distances (20 and 40 m) the low-beam lamps provided greater visibility.....................the low beam alone provided better target contrast for all conditions beyond 10 m. "

 

" The comparisons of low beams used alone to low beams used with

fog lamps... yielded a pattern that was very similar, with the

added fog lamps increasing the visibility provided by the low beams at short range, but reducing visibility at longer distances."

 

" Front fog lamps are designed primarily to increase driver comfort and security rather than to promote collision avoidance visibility. The peripheral illumination production of front fog lamps enhances driver visibility of positional cues needed for vehicle control."

 

Bottom line: front fog lamps are primarily for perceived comfort, and lane awareness, and cosmetics.

[TSiWRX]

^ Cosmetics FTW!!!!!

 

Thanks for going back and researching that law for me - as you know, bruddah, I consider you to be among the most knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff, and was thus taken aback when you'd said that the yellow/amber fogs were in-violation of federal laws.

 

Good to know that I won't have to worry, when crossing state lines!

 

I have a pretty short series of postings on NASIOC, helping a fellow local enthusiast, regarding "yellow" for the front headlamps...that was the main reason why I'd became aware of our local rules:

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24276116&postcount=467

 

[outahere]

From Daniel Stern:

 

"........Almost all factory-installed or dealer-optional fog lamps, and a great many aftermarket units, are essentially useless for any purpose, especially for extremely demanding poor-weather driving. Many of them are too small to produce enough light to make a difference, produce beam patterns too narrow to help, lack a sufficiently-sharp cutoff, and throw too much glare light into the eyes of other drivers, no matter how they're aimed....... "

[SLegacy99]

Thats why I have JDM foglights

 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f200/SLegacy99/Picture104-1.jpg

 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f200/SLegacy99/Picture001.jpg

[TSiWRX]

From Daniel Stern:

 

"........Almost all factory-installed or dealer-optional fog lamps, and a great many aftermarket units, are essentially useless for any purpose, especially for extremely demanding poor-weather driving. Many of them are too small to produce enough light to make a difference, produce beam patterns too narrow to help, lack a sufficiently-sharp cutoff, and throw too much glare light into the eyes of other drivers, no matter how they're aimed....... "

 

^ I think that the friggin' fogs on my rental Ford Explorer is an exception to that rule.

 

I drove around for a while, not knowing that I only had the front fogs on, 'cause they were so friggin' bright!

[outahere]

From Daniel Stern:

 

"........Almost all factory-installed or dealer-optional fog lamps, and a great many aftermarket units, are essentially useless for any purpose, especially for extremely demanding poor-weather driving. Many of them are too small to produce enough light to make a difference, produce beam patterns too narrow to help, lack a sufficiently-sharp cutoff, and throw too much glare light into the eyes of other drivers, no matter how they're aimed....... "

 

To this I would add (based on the few academic papers I have read) that currently available fog lamps have too wide a beam spread (this increases back scatter), have too short a beam length (inadequate to see obstacles more than 10m away), are mounted in the least-optimal position (increases back scatter), and do not properly exploit the "comfort" advantages of yellow or amber light (yellow lighting can have around 30% more luminous flux than white lighting, for the same amount of glare).

[outahere]

It finally snowed last night, giving me my first chance to see what the 85W Narva Rally Gold H3 bulbs can do in the snow. It was a worthwhile upgrade, better then the 55W Hella XY bulbs. The main benefit seems to be better detection of nearby obstacles, like curbs;)

 

But I still think the factory projector fogs are a very inefficient optical design. The reflector does not seem to collect the maximal amount of light off the bulb, and/or the lens does not seem to project that much light onto the road.

[FrozenNorthLGT]

It finally snowed last night, giving me my first chance to see what the 85W Narva Rally Gold H3 bulbs can do in the snow. It was a worthwhile upgrade, better then the 55W Hella XY bulbs. The main benefit seems to be better detection of nearby obstacles, like curbs;)

 

That is the main thing I noticed when I switched mine. I have the PIAA Ion Yellow's, and I havent really had the chance to drive during anything but light snow, and light fog (we dont really get much fog here anyways)...but after the 8 inches of snow we got a week ago I noticed at night that I could discern variations in snow depth, drifting, and buried objects (curbs/etc) much better then I could with my old car with it's white fogs. Im excited to actually drive in some heavy snow conditions this winter and see what difference there may be.

 

Aside from that, I like how they contrast with the headlights while I'm driving...I agree with those that say it feels easier on my eyes. I have poor night vision in the first place, and these help a good deal.

 

Lastly, I like how they look from the outside too. All that being said, Im glad I purchased them and plan on keeping them that way....just my .02.

[Vwown3d]

Piaa ion's and never look back. Altho at the falling price of hid's (sub 100 dollars) you can just get a 3000k hid kid and put it in the fogs

[schwartzki]

I wouldnt want the 3000k HIDs in my fogs cause i have reflectors in my outback...just hids up top.

[schwartzki]

Just purchased the 9006 eurolites for the fogs in the outback, gonna do a led strip and HIDs as well

[Deunan]

Sry but my Piaa HB 2500k does NOT fit 9006 slot??? am I missing something? It said interchangeable 9005/9006.

[Deunan]

Can't beat Piaa 2500k plasma ion bulbs

 

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2478/4621/31194810020_large.jpg

[skiibumm]

Schwartzki, I have the same feeling about the fogs with having reflectors. I had a chevy truck and they had no reflector and those fog lights were great. I've thought about taking out the reflector in mine if that is possible.