boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 When it rains, it pours. The Mustang was running great at the track on Friday. We had done our first 2 hour run for mpg. 15 gallons for 2 hours. Not bad, not great. The next hour things started to slow down a bit and overheating became an issue. then it sounded funny. Funny in the way a blown head gasket sounds funny. We have radiator fluid in #8 sparkplug hole. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I didn't know Subaru made a flat 8 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 On the race wagon, I pulled the passenger side timing cover off for another project. While inspecting the inside of the cover I noticed an odd wear pattern. Sticking the cell phone in for a closer look, I think I know why Sgt.Gator's wife said the motor sounded like a box of rocks. 1. The cam gear should not come out when you take off the cover. 2. The timing belt should not look like a mouse made a nest in it. Looks like I'll be needing new heads and running gear. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I didn't know Subaru made a flat 8 Yep, it was a special project with Ford. And it fails just like a ej257, too. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Well the good news is a 302 hg replacement is a little more easy than on an EJ 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Well the good news is a 302 hg replacement is a little more easy than on an EJ yes it is. except its a 4.6L 4v motor. So a bit finicky. Still we don't have to pull the motor unless we mess up. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebourne Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Rock on to y,'all! It's ackward to "thank" when something breaks. But when your attitude is to persevere, even when isht goes wrong, man do I love it. No care of it's V8, or flat 4. Make it happen, keep your head up. pic thread build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Take the rest of the timing covers off! I want to know what failed. Especially if my first guess is correct, the tensioner wasn't Loctited down and came unscrewed. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Looks like the plastic cam gear shredded itself (which can happen when they get small cracks in them). I doubt a lack of loctite would have caused that. I have heard of the tensioner bolts breaking in half before though on several occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 yes it is. except its a 4.6L 4v motor. So a bit finicky. Still we don't have to pull the motor unless we mess up. Oh yeah well that's a little different, but still not too bad. Check out the timing chain guides while you are there. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Take the rest of the timing covers off! I want to know what failed. Especially if my first guess is correct, the tensioner wasn't Loctited down and came unscrewed. The pass side is easy to get off. The driver side is way more work as have to remove the FMIC piping. Getting custom timing belt covers made, so needed models. parts car only had the driver side cover, so racecar had to donate its pass side. From the look of the belt and the broken cam gear, it looks like the gear broke first, then shredded the belt. As there is blue gunk on the bottom side of the cam gear. So the belt would have been still turning after the cam gear popped off. The part that's not in the pics is the belt looks like its pushed into the guides too far. Although that could be a side effect of the gear failing. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Oh yeah well that's a little different, but still not too bad. Check out the timing chain guides while you are there. Queuing a few a books on amazon on rebuilding the 4.6L. FB group on racing mustangs says the motor is really strong. However, the 3 years of sitting likely didn't do the hg much good. Need to pull the head to find out how much work we really need. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Queuing a few a books on amazon on rebuilding the 4.6L. FB group on racing mustangs says the motor is really strong. However, the 3 years of sitting likely didn't do the hg much good. Need to pull the head to find out how much work we really need. Yeah I've done a bunch of research on the 3V version which is in my Exploder. It seems like the chain guides are the weakest points. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Looks like the plastic cam gear shredded itself (which can happen when they get small cracks in them). I doubt a lack of loctite would have caused that. I have heard of the tensioner bolts breaking in half before though on several occasions. Yes, me too. :-) I've been looking at scrapping the bakelite cam gears and adjustable cam gears. Instead using the all metal gears like these - https://www.rallysportdirect.com/scp/engine/motor-builds/cam-gears or these - http://www.tomiokaracing.com/index.php/subaru-adjustable-cam-gear.html for removing the current cam gears, found this linked site from years ago. Looks like they are out of stock, tho. http://ultimatetoolco.com/products . Found it from an LGT.com link - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/removing-your-cam-gears-pita-until-now-105594.html Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Yeah I've done a bunch of research on the 3V version which is in my Exploder. It seems like the chain guides are the weakest points. I'm crossing my fingers that the Exploder troubles do not find their way into our motor. We have a 2003 Mach 1 motor and 4V heads with 1996 Cobra electrics. A real Frankenstein beast. Redline is 7050. First day on track we were dawdling around at 5k as we didn't know the redline. Dash tach said 5k, so we followed it. Someone looked it up and called it over the radio. Next shift, I waited until 6800 to shift. The motor really puts a smile on your face. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I'm crossing my fingers that the Exploder troubles do not find their way into our motor. We have a 2003 Mach 1 motor and 4V heads with 1996 Cobra electrics. A real Frankenstein beast. Redline is 7050. First day on track we were dawdling around at 5k as we didn't know the redline. Dash tach said 5k, so we followed it. Someone looked it up and called it over the radio. Next shift, I waited until 6800 to shift. The motor really puts a smile on your face. Just keep an eye on the chain guides as they are all basically the same for the 4V and 3V motors, and the main trouble spot on the 4.6/5.4. The others apply only to cars with cam phasers, and I don't think the 4V motors had the spark plug issues as the 2V and 3V had. Haha my Exploder shifts at 6k rpm and it's still pulling pretty strong. 5K had to be supremely boring on that motor. The 4.6 is almost perfectly square so it loves to rev! 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 All the 99-04 new edge mustangs use that motor. I bet you can get a complete long block for like $400. Found one on eBay motors for $425. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 All the 99-04 new edge mustangs use that motor. I bet you can get a complete long block for like $400. Found one on eBay motors for $425. They use a 2V version of the 4.6L. The block is basically the same but the 3V heads are way better and the 4V version he has is even more better. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I know the SN95 are the 2v I thought all the 99+ were the 4v. Guess not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I know the SN95 are the 2v I thought all the 99+ were the 4v. Guess not. Mach 1 motor is extra special. :-) http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/1404-fords-46l-dohc-v8-explained-cammer-time/ Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I know the SN95 are the 2v I thought all the 99+ were the 4v. Guess not. The basic Mustang GT stayed 2V until 05 when it got the 3V motor, which is basically the same as the motor in my Explorer. The Mustang had an aluminum block instead of iron in the Explorer. Apparently Mustang supercharger kits fit the Explorer 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Interesting. My dad had a Lincoln Aviator back in the day that had more power than the standard explorer. Wonder what version that one was. Never really thought about it. I was always under the impression that the new edge cars got the updated heads due to the nearly 50hp power bump they got when they came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Interesting. My dad had a Lincoln Aviator back in the day that had more power than the standard explorer. Wonder what version that one was. Never really thought about it. I was always under the impression that the new edge cars got the updated heads due to the nearly 50hp power bump they got when they came out. The Aviator got the same basic engine as the Mach 1, 4.6 DOHC 4V. The 5R55 transmission was trash though lol 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 As we want to get the Mustang back on the road in less than 3 years, I think we're going to opt for a shop to do it. In other news, I pulled the driver timing belt cover on the racewagon. No additional damage was found. However, I checked the timing belt tension on the pass side (where the cam gear failed) and noticed the upper part of the belt was lacking tension. Best guess - an idler pulley failed. Won't know until the engine is pulled and disassembled. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Boxkita answer your pm 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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