Pirelli PZero Nero M&S vs. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S

[jim1969]

How much is your speedo off with the 225/45R17? Any clearance issues going up to that size?

[XT6Wagon]

The things are smaller than the stock tires. and its still close enough to not worry about. If you really want some handling 235/45R17's might make for a nice street setup. Should be grippy, yet progressive as the tires will round out more on the narrow rims.

[caramall2]

If you buy tires online, how do you get them mounted well but cheaply? Seems like the big dogs charge a lot. How about warantee? PZeros mounted would cost me $650 at Discount Tire. You can buy them for about $480 from tire rack, but will I shell out $120 for mounting? Thanks.

[SBT]

$30.00 a tire mounted/balanced seems excessive, $20.00 is more the going rate in SoCal at the major outlets. FWIW - I usually order any TireRack tires that I find and want through my local Discount Tire buddies. May pay a bit more pricewise, but by the time everything is squared up and done, I'm still ahead. I've got free rotation and balance for the life of the tire, free flat repair (if repairable), 180 days interest free payments, and it builds good relations with the tire store. Putting tires on all five has it's advantages and they work the deals for me. :) SBT

[PGT]

Costco charges $10/corner.

[sduford]

What equipment does Costco use? I only go to tire shops that have the Hunter GSP9700, well worth paying a bit more to make sure you have the best possible road-force balancing job.

[PGT]

Good question. Not sure. They just built one around the corner from my house, so they have brand new equipment. I will have to check it out.

[SBT]

As it turns out, my Discount Tire Company store, uses the GSP9700 with the Lateral Force Measurement (LFM). Good explanation of the process here...[url="http://128.242.141.111/pub/features/how.cfm"]http://128.242.141.111/pub/features/how.cfm[/url]. This site will also help you find one of these gems in you local area [url="http://128.242.141.111/index.cfm"]http://128.242.141.111/index.cfm[/url] Back on-topic, I'm leaning toward the P-Zero Neros too. SBT

[dimil]

I got my AvonTech M550 M+S installed friday at the dealer for $60 (all four), They do use GSP9700. Same 215/45/17 size, but actual thread wider by 0.7 of an inch then stockers. So far night and day difference, I was litte surprised when I couldn't get oversteer last night :D

[sduford]

I've been researching these two tires all winter (I'll be buying some soon, as 3 season tires). I've poured over tests from Tirerack and from Canadian and European magazines. I've unfortunately not been able to find a direct comparison test between these two. However, I was able to correlate reviews based on other tires they were compared against. Here is my assessment: (YMMV) These two tires are excellent and are quite close to each other, so if you are cost conscious, the Pirelli is definitely the way to go. The Michelin is 50% more expensive and it is definitely not 50% better! However, if cost is secondary and you start looking at other criteria, then things may change depending on your priority. For dry handling and steering responsiveness, the Pirelli seems to have a slight edge. For wet handling and braking, the Michelin seems to have the edge. In fact, by most accounts it is exceptional in the wet. For snow, hard to say which is best as there are no formal tests available but both are not much more then just adequate. For ride comfort the Michelin seems to have the edge. Testers have made comments like "seems to envelope and absorb bumps and expansion joints, providing a near luxury ride". Conversely the Pirelli does a bit or tramlining and will "thump" on expansion joints. So my conclusions are (again, this is just my opinion, based on all the info I could gather). You can't go wrong with either, they are both outstanding tires. If cost and/or dry handling are you priorities, then go for the Pirellis. If wet performance and/or ride comfort are your priorities, then go for the Michelin. For me personally, driving an OBXT which doesn't have the suspension to make maximum use of a tire and is not all that tossable anyway, safety and comfort are most important. Given that safety is a lot more compromised on wet pavement, and I put a premium on wet performance, I plan to go with the Michelin. I also considered two touring tires (again, this is no sports car) and I looked at both the Proxes TPT and the Turanza LS-V. Both seem to be excellent tires as well, but there is very little data available on the TPT. Again, this is my own interpretation of the dat, use it at your own risk!

[SBT]

Fast Sly, Thanks for the data gathering, even piecing together the other comparo's to make some "side-by-side" sense of these two tires. Since SoCal is mostly dry, with the exception of the 1-2 months of on-again (downpour), off-again (drizzle) rain so my thoughts were leaning toward the Pzeros. However, now that you mention it again, at least one of the SoCal members sold their new set of Pzeros due to the tramlining and that's a big deal on the SoCal freeways. May have to rethink this. Thanks for the op-ed piece to help with my thinking. SBT

[Unilat]

[quote name='dimil']I got my AvonTech M550 M+S installed friday at the dealer for $60 (all four), They do use GSP9700. Same 215/45/17 size, but actual thread wider by 0.7 of an inch then stockers. So far night and day difference, I was litte surprised when I couldn't get oversteer last night :D[/QUOTE] Avon always seems to be a quality dark horse manufacturer. I'll be looking at these when I'm ready to upgrade, along with the Michelins and Pirellis.

[Xenonk]

I am running on a set of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and for the price that I got it for, it's worth every penny.. the tires are not as great as a dedicated summer tire, but you can't ask for much when there's snow on the ground. Keefe

[PGT]

[quote name='Subietonic']...at least one of the SoCal members sold their new set of Pzeros due to the tramlining and that's a big deal on the SoCal freeways...[/QUOTE] IIRC, this member was using a non-stock size on stock wheels....225 section width. That had as much to do with the problem, if not more so than type of tire that was used.

[SBT]

[quote name='Patagonian GT']IIRC, this member was using a non-stock size on stock wheels....225 section width. That had as much to do with the problem, if not more so than type of tire that was used.[/QUOTE] Now that you mention it, I think this was the case. Was looking for the post but can't seem to locate it. SBT

[racerdave]

The Avon's also are one of the only tires in the 215/45/17 size that have reinforced sidewalls, giving them a higher load rating. This could be important for wagon owners, or someone just wanting a little better pothole resistance. FWIW, the others with reinforced sidewalls (87 rating for standard load, 91 for XL) are the Kumho ASX and Toyo Proxes 4. FWIW x 2: I love my Proxes 4s. Outstanding in dry and wet. Not a pure snow tire, but it works fine. And NO tramlining. At $88-90 per tire, absolutely unbeatable, IMHO.

[Ken S]

Not to go too far off an a tangent, but has Avon tire been around for a while? I noticed that Tire Rack has been pushing them recently. I think I'll also be looking at these tires in addition to the PZeros when it comes time to replace. Ken

[PGT]

Avon has been around along time in Europe, only recently in the US. They did alot of R&D on a twin-tire concept back in the '80s....basically two skinny tires on one rim. This allowed a center channel for evacuation of water (no hydroplaning) and also some control if one tire collapsed due to a flat. Modern tires that have a center channel (Goodyear Aquatred) can trace their existence back to this research.

[racerdave]

The Avons the Tire Rack sells are rebranded... I think they're actually made by Cooper. The Tire Rack themselves commissioned them, from what I heard. Look at the "test results" of the Avons in comparison to the Neros. Actual numbers aren't important, but the relationship of the tire you like in comparison to the "control tire" (Goodyear RSA) is a better number to look at. A lot of people don't speak too highly of the Goodyear, but check out its wet numbers. Most all-season tires have a hard time beating it. I don't remember where the Avon's strengths were, but they weren't much better than the RSA overall. The Neros, on the other hand, were clearly superior in all tests.

[lemming]

hello folks. just spent a rather nasty winter in New England (top five in terms of snowfall in beantown) with two legacy GTs. one shod with toyo proxes 4 (all season hi-po) and one with the pirelli pzero nero M&S. the pirelli tire is superior by far. not only to the re92 which is the baseline reference, but to the toyo, also. tires spin with the toyo's (the worst in snow), slightly with the re92s but very little with the pzero's. these are the nicest all season tires that i have mounted on any car in awhile. sumitumo hipo all seasons were terrible, too. i'm sure the michelin pilot a/s are great, but no one here will be disappointed with pzero nero m/s's. of course, the winter is over now, but for future reference. i also agree with the poster who said that somehow the re92s on the legacy gt's are better than the re92 experience in the wrx. i, too, had a wrx with the re92s. they were awful. am not sure how much better they are in the leg GT application, but they are SLIGHTLY better.

[sduford]

[quote name='lemming']hello folks. i also agree with the poster who said that somehow the re92s on the legacy gt's are better than the re92 experience in the wrx. i, too, had a wrx with the re92s. they were awful. am not sure how much better they are in the leg GT application, but they are SLIGHTLY better.[/QUOTE] Probably because what we have is the RE-92[b]A [/b]Improved crap is still crap :D

[lemming]

[quote name='sduford']Probably because what we have is the RE-92[b]A [/b]Improved crap is still crap :D[/QUOTE] yeah. tires chosen for reducing road noise as a priority isn't exactly going to translate well into high performance. funny metric but it doesn't surprise me as an OEM criterion.

[sduford]

Better EPA fuel consumption rating is my guess...

[caramall2]

Lemming--Someone told me Perellis wear really quick--like 25k and they're gone, hence they recommended the Michellin. Any past experience?

[boris]

[quote name='caramall2']Lemming--Someone told me Perellis wear really quick--like 25k and they're gone, hence they recommended the Michellin. Any past experience?[/QUOTE] Check the user reviews on Tirerack. Wear seems to be a big issue with the Michelins.