Canon20D Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 bring it to another subaru dealer and explain the situation? Tell them to bill the guy that did it for all work done. Should get a VERY Through inspection lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Really ... the more I think about this ... if you don't have oil/trans fluid in your coolant, and your O2 sensors aren't fouled, no CELs, and the car is now running fine ... I think you're ok. No harm in bringing it to another dealer ... but really, if it's fine, what good will it do to continue searching for something wrong if it's all right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 ^ +1 Your car isn't throwing codes and seems to be running fine. The worst case scenario is that they put (according to you) ATF fluid in the crankcase. ATF is very good oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 The only other thing I would be concerned about is if your car ran really hot at all. Did your car ever start overheating or just running hot in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Car never overheated - always sat at the half way. Car still running awkwardly, definately not just the hesitation most of us (including myself) have experienced. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 You say it's running awkwardly ... Can you possibly describe how you mean? That's a pretty vague statement. I guess I might also be concerned about the turbo having received proper lubrication as well. Do you have an AP? Or a boost gauge? It would be interesting to know if it's still hitting normal boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Too bad the punk with the DUI didn't end up in jail, then none of this would have happened. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 Brady - kinda hard to describe so lemme see.. In my old (honda) if you'd try to drive it anything but grandma before it was warmed up when it was like 40* outside, it'd run like crap - and by that I mean act like it was hard for the motor to progress past certain points RPM wise.. In applying this to the Legacy..well... I can't. So maybe you understand what I mean when I say it feels like the cars not warmed up and im pushing it too hard. Yes, this happens when car is fully warmed up. Getting in to first gear successfully is the real pickle for me - it's like I have to re-learn how to drive this car after the 15k miles i've put on it... learning to drive a tard car I don't have an AP nor a boost gauge. The car is still piss fast and by no means runs like a civic at this point, it's just the noticable hesitation (again not the typical one most of us have experienced). It's kind of like that brief second of incredible lag atleast once per 750 rpms that I gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 have you tried disconnecting the negative terminal on your car and Resetting the ECU ... might be helpful in this case. It surely can't hurt. Could it also be a placebo effect? You fear something is wrong, and therefore you interpret things that were once minor issues as being far multiplied now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qikslvr Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I hate to throw fuel on the fire, but it sounds like the bearing on the turbo may have sustained some undue wear. If you're brave (or stupid depending on how people look at it) take it out and beat the piss out of it and see if it clears up or breaks completely. This is my method for finding the weakest or worn link. The crazy thing is that most engine flush chemicals are basically ATF. Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 have you tried disconnecting the negative terminal on your car and Resetting the ECU ... might be helpful in this case. It surely can't hurt. Could it also be a placebo effect? You fear something is wrong, and therefore you interpret things that were once minor issues as being far multiplied now? Sadly, I've already tried the ECU reset. Thanks for the suggestion though. Regarding placebo - a couple of friends that have gone on rides with me have all either asked why the car's running like 'that', or why I suddenly suck at driving.. it's a noticable thing to others wish it were just placebo. As far as taking it out and beating on it goes, I've taken it up towards redline figuring I was fucked anyway since the shop sucks and the subaru dealership sucks too. Figured I'd coast it in to their shop window if it finally blew - she does ok up high, it's just getting there that's muddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator GT Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Have you changed anything (sparks, sensors, cats...anything downstream of the cylinders)? I'd put oil in it for 500 miles and in that 500 miles use a gas additive like Techron or something similar to help clean cylinders and use 93 octane (if you are used to using 91). Then do a full change along with the items listed above and previously in this thread (spark plugs cat, O2 sensors etc), PLUS pull the negative on the batter and step on the brake to drain. Wait 15 minutes, reconnect negative and follow the resetting ECU instructions in many places on this board. I've never heard of ATF being okay for the motor (due to it being a highly refined oil)....but never really looked into it. But I gotta think that doing all this will clear up any residual "unrecommended" fluids in your motor. Good luck and just be wary of what one person's definition of a 'trusted shop' is compared to what yours is. "If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." - T. Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted July 26, 2007 Author Share Posted July 26, 2007 Have you changed anything (sparks, sensors, cats...anything downstream of the cylinders)? I'd put oil in it for 500 miles and in that 500 miles use a gas additive like Techron or something similar to help clean cylinders and use 93 octane (if you are used to using 91). Then do a full change along with the items listed above and previously in this thread (spark plugs cat, O2 sensors etc), PLUS pull the negative on the batter and step on the brake to drain. Wait 15 minutes, reconnect negative and follow the resetting ECU instructions in many places on this board. I've never heard of ATF being okay for the motor (due to it being a highly refined oil)....but never really looked into it. But I gotta think that doing all this will clear up any residual "unrecommended" fluids in your motor. Good luck and just be wary of what one person's definition of a 'trusted shop' is compared to what yours is. Sadly, I can afford the car, and the gas - but I can't afford to do the above reccomendations. In weighing some money dropped on that vs a toast car that I owe 15k on, yes, it seems practical to do - but i'm not in any position to do so I'm planning another oil change very shortly, and always run 91 or 93, whichever I can find in town - but will certainly seek out 93 from here on out. Whats this step on the brake to drain? Thanks for reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator GT Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Sadly, I can afford the car, and the gas - but I can't afford to do the above reccomendations. In weighing some money dropped on that vs a toast car that I owe 15k on, yes, it seems practical to do - but i'm not in any position to do so I'm planning another oil change very shortly, and always run 91 or 93, whichever I can find in town - but will certainly seek out 93 from here on out. Whats this step on the brake to drain? Thanks for reply. I forget where I saw it (here or NASIOC), but it mentioned that stepping on the brake drained any reserve or helped discharge any lingering juice, especially in the ECU. If you do a search, you may run across it. And if it does nothing...well, hey, you're not hurting anything by doing it. "If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." - T. Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Sadly, I can afford the car, and the gas - but I can't afford to do the above reccomendations. In weighing some money dropped on that vs a toast car that I owe 15k on, yes, it seems practical to do - but i'm not in any position to do so I'm planning another oil change very shortly, and always run 91 or 93, whichever I can find in town - but will certainly seek out 93 from here on out. Whats this step on the brake to drain? Thanks for reply. Just use the premium grade gas available in your area. Get a bottle of Techron and follow the directions. Maybe get the large size which treats up to 20 gallons I think. Techron uses the same diluted active ingredient as BG44k (which is almost pure) that some folks absolutely swear by. However, do we still know for sure that the dealership filled your crankcase with tranny fluid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 Wasn't a dealership - tell me what you all think of this condensed story as to whether tranny fluid was used: did my own oil change, cleaned pan ofcourse cause im a nitpicker.. come texas on my trip (~1500? miles from VA) I was over a qt low and still smelling this mysterious 'burn off', way too many miles after svc for things to still be burning. went to do my oil change and noticed pan was messed.. not my doings - upon removing bolt i was splashed ridiculously as was my street by the near water consistancy red fluid spilling out. after completing oil change burning smell disappeared entirely. sound right? I mean, i'd hate to go this far with them when i'm wrong, but it all adds up to that.. and explains why i lost oil, smelled the burning for the entire near cross country trip, and observed watery red fluid spilling and splashing out of my motor during the change. i've arranged to meet with the shop owner on Monday, and he would like to drive the car. The car still is quick as piss - but i've put like 15,000 miles on the car, I know how it used to drive..and know it runs different. Im afraid he'll say well it runs fine, too bad.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted July 29, 2007 Author Share Posted July 29, 2007 Fellas, Today (like all days since i've realized what happened) I was being careful to monitor my foot pressure on the pedal, rpms, everything. However, since my meeting with the shop owner is tomorrow morning I was making 100% sure that my 15 mile drive home today was performed flawlessly. Foot steady on the pedal in 4th gear between 50-55mph I believe, under 3000 rpms - the car entirely lost power for about a second. This was no simple buck felt under acceleration, this was in a steady cruise. I nearly shit my pants from the adrenaline rush and when the second was up the car did a little jolt as it gained power again. Yes i've spoken of bucking and rough acceleration, hesitation, etc.. but this was the first time it's truly scared me - especially when being so careful. Now, I must add a rather shitty detail to the entire situation. I topped off my oil in Texas. I drove to Santa fe from there, put about 100 miles in town and then up to telluride. Let me mapquest this: 280 from amarillo to santa fe.. 100 in town, and 313 miles from Santa Fe to Telluride through winding roads, constantly going up and down mountains. 700 miles after I had topped off, I parked my car at the hotel in Telluride and it sat for five days untouched. Exhausted from a long weekend of bluegrass we loaded our bags and started the car. It hesitated for an extended turnover (rare for my car), but when it started it sounded literally like metal on metal, awful friction and vibration. After the car had fully turned over for about 2 seconds it sounded semi-normal. My buddy and I exchanged "WTF's" before coming to the burnt out conclusion that maybe it was the lack of air at 13,000 feet, or the fact that it had sat for the longest since I've owned it (5 days), or bad gas from the valleys small gas station. Suck. It's going to sound awful fishy introducing this to the shop, but god as my witness, as well as my friend.. that happened, and I admit it's pathetic I didn't recall until today. Wish me luck fellas, since the shop doubts me, and my friends father doubts me - i'd assume some of you doubt me as well. If only they could polygraph for this sort of thing.. i'd gladly be struck down by god this instant if I've told any lies regarding this whole freaking mess. Thanks for listening, everyone I talk to in person is pretty much sick of it. I owe $15,000 on this car and attend college while working full time so i can have a safe and reliable vehicle (that's rather sexy as well). I'm going crazy over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 Update.. Met with the shop owner today. He insisted upon driving the car. Lol, first things first, he stalled awfully. After that he shifted like he hadn't driven a manual in 20 years - and the bucking showed itself. He however stated that he didn't know how the cars were supposed to feel so I guess he wasn't taking it seriously. He offered to have what fluids I drained analyzed - but stated over and over again that it was impossible, definately didn't happen, not his ASE certified guys, balblalba. Unsatisfied with him essentially implying I was bluffing, I drove down to my local Subaru dealership and offered to buy the entire building lunch for 5 minutes of the head tech's time. Tech came out, told him the entire story for which his jaw was dropped the entire time. He said after driving that far on the wrong fluid under such stress (speeds, ac, load, mountains) especially when I was probably only holding on to about 3 quarts for a long ways, that failure was inevitable - and said a new motor and turbo would be most certainly due. When I told him about how it had gotten worse, lost power yesterday, been bucking more.. his exact words were "Well, be safe driving bud - and wait for you know what to hit the fan" Based on how the car feels even babying it now I'm not considering the vehicle even remotely reliable at this point - honestly wouldn't be too surprised if something gets screwed in the next few days. After talking to the tech and having him affirm how serious it was, and him saying that it's inevitable, I contacted an attorney and will be going from there. Once again, please wish me luck fellas. Between the dry start that I mentioned in the above post, and the realization that I was not only running ~3 quarts of the wrong fluid, seems like the car's fate is sealed. Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondas123 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Best of luck and be sure to keep us updated. - The Mortgage Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperhawkLGT Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 subscribe. That sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qikslvr Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Don't let off until the shop owner ponies up for his techs mistake or proves you wrong. I'm sure the lawyer will have some constructive input. Once the shop owner gets a serious call from a lawyer he may decide to change his tune real quick like. It's never good for business to have you shop's name involved with a negligence case. It just has a way of driving customers away. If the lawyer thinks you have a case , you may also want to contact a local news station that does the "consumer protection" bits. This would be real good for this guys business. Did you ever get copies of the service records? I would be real interested to see what brand/quantity/type of fliuds they use and charged you for. If you did get records, you should check them against your friends Dad's receipt to see if anything changed. This is a perfect example of why you should only take your new/latemodel car to the dealer or do it yourself. If the dealer screws up they have to eat it. If you screw up you have no one to blame but yourself. Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Qik- I obtained a print out of work done prior to them knowing that I was upset about anything - it doesn't list an oil change.. First attorney stated it's going to be a very tough case to prove and that getting the oil analyzed would be the first step but still not provide much of an argument. Second and third stated that getting it analyzed would be the first step, but all three seem to think the cards are against me Is anyone on this board legally savvy? I don't want to lose hope on this, I can't.. Car has been retired until further notice due to how poorly it runs and the fact that it's actually scary at this point to drive. With that being said, unless this is resolved it looks like I'll have to skip going to ODU this year and work to buy myself a beater while I continue to pay off my Legacy for the next 4.5 years as it wastes away in my yard Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starhm Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Weak. Took it to the dealership with a whole printout of what had happened - told the whole story. Returned car like $120 later after doing oil + filter change and driving it only to say they felt no problems. What the hell - I really feel no better about this car situation. If they liked it, trade it in to them... If it is bugging you that much, let it go and dont wait for it to die. You have a ready dealership that says nothing is wrong with it, so test the waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 If they liked it, trade it in to them... If it is bugging you that much, let it go and dont wait for it to die. You have a ready dealership that says nothing is wrong with it, so test the waters. Great point, thanks so much! I just got off the phone with my insurance company (Geico) and they're sending someone to the local Subaru dealership Monday to check the car. Though the problems gotten worse since Subaru drove it and I'm positive I could exhibit the issues of the car to them at this point, if they maintain nothing's wrong with it and Geico therefore won't cover it, then I'll go ahead and trade it in. Sucks to think I may have to trade it in on something and pay more, I waited a long time to find this GT and travelled pretty far - dunno if I could afford an 07-08 GT though. I can't bare to downgrade though when this entire issue isn't my fault.. but downgrading I suppose is far better than paying for the next 4.5 years on a timebomb. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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