Installed the Tein Comfort Sports

[lawl]

I have the KWs with whiteline f&r adj. sway bars and I have not had any problems or heard of a problem from having sways.

 

didnt mean as far as problems, just handling dynamics.

[itsme]

didnt mean as far as problems, just handling dynamics.

I have my sways set soft. Maybe it's a problem with stiffer bars.

[Guest]

do you have sways?

 

On certain cars if you have a coilover suspension they recommend you run as little a sway as possible (or no sway, even)

 

Can you cite the source? I know it's one of the conflicting theories - stiff springs on coilovers reduce bodyroll anyway, so no need for stiff sways.... The other theory says opposite... stiffer bars needed to actually do anything.

[bigbutt]

Hey Guys,

 

I installed a AVO RSB set at the stiff setting.

 

Yesterday I had the car corner balanced and aligned.

 

I have noticed a significant inprovement with turn in. The car seems to rotate better when turning in.

 

I don't fully understand corner balancing but what I understand it spreads out the suspension load- correct if I am wrong- but one thing I know is that the car feels more balanced. Also too in the process he ended up raising the rear a half inch

 

I think a lot of guys here have changed sways and added coilovers and none of us regret doing this.

 

Lou

[itsme]

I'm getting mine corner balanced soon.

[lawl]

Can you cite the source? I know it's one of the conflicting theories - stiff springs on coilovers reduce bodyroll anyway, so no need for stiff sways.... The other theory says opposite... stiffer bars needed to actually do anything.

 

Some suspension "gurus" on miata.net.

 

Although I don't remember their names.. Icehawk might be one of them..

 

 

It is a different suspension setup though. Double wishbones in all 4 corners might react differently to the setup than what the legacy has.

 

However I do know that with a stiffer sway bar you are essentially lessening a lot of the positive effects of independent rear suspension (because you are making it more and more like a solid rear)

 

So you can reach your limits with greater ease and comfort but it lowers the overall vehicle's limits on grip. Not sure if how I put it makes sense. Just throwing this example out. The Stig would be able to turn a faster lap time in YOUR car with JDM (which i think are not as understeery as UDSM) sways on than with the biggest diameter aftermarket sways possible, everything else stock

 

 

 

With that all said I'm NOT an expert, just trying to relay some info that might help a few people. Not that many here people care about max grip, just street handling dynamics. In this case sways are good.

 

I do run sways on my miata but it's because I never get to the car's limits.. (no time to autocross). I dont care about overall grip. I just want to corner flat on the street.

 

*Disclaimer* I could be totally off base and have misinterpreted all the ideas in this post. (Which is probably why Hearsay testimony is not admissible in court:))

[Guest]

Well, it sort of makes sense since the flatter the car is in turns, the closer you're to the tire grip limit... that's very unscientific as well, but the point is it's easier to go to too fast in turn with stiff suspension with minimum body roll than with "regular" softish suspension with lots of body roll.

[sgt]

A stiffer sway bar does not really make an IRS behave more like a solid rear.

 

The idea with the relationship between sway bars and springs is that you use a sway bar to make up for softer springs. Softer springs give you ride comfort but will come with body roll. Sway bars take away that body roll with minimal decrease in ride quality. If your springs are stiff enough, you do not need a sway bar, however at that point you are typically talking about a racecar and not a street car.

[gone2vegas]

I'm getting mine corner balanced soon.

 

West End Alignment?

[lawl]

Well, it sort of makes sense since the flatter the car is in turns, the closer you're to the tire grip limit... that's very unscientific as well, but the point is it's easier to go to too fast in turn with stiff suspension with minimum body roll than with "regular" softish suspension with lots of body roll.

 

http://www.jdmcivic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4704

 

last post. guy seems to know what he's talking about. (more than me, anyway)

 

Basically you HAVE to transfer weight during a turn. You get lots of bodyroll because a lot more weight is being transferred to one side. However when you're turning left you want more weight on the right side. With a bigger bar you're sort of telling where you want the weight to go. In this case you're shifting more weight to the left side than with a softer bar. which is not ideal if you want max grip.

 

I'm not saying bodyroll is good but I'm using this as a visual example.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/lawtheflaw/miata%20race/44-1.jpg

 

This is stock suspension (the shocks usually are gone by 60k miles and this car had 110k on it). Left turn, see where the weight wants to go- left. Putting a stiffer sway on it will make it more level and also putting more weight to the left= bad for traction.

 

Same reason why you can get away with brembos in the front but less hardcore brakes in the back. (and why you notice your front pads going dead 2-3x faster than your rears) when you're braking the weight is moving to the front and that's where the traction is and that's where the braking is.

 

Basically putting stiffer sways means you're transferring some weight to the side that doesn't need the traction and taking it away from the side that DOES need traction.

 

Like i said I'm no expert. posting a picture of a miata on a track doesnt make me an expert. I was probably the slowest sap out there because I suck at driving. I needed a picture of bodyroll and that was ready to go.

 

That bodyroll was pretty fantastic though I have to admit.

 

back to the comfort sports review

[itsme]

West End Alignment?

yes.

[SkullLeader]

Hey Bigbutt, how are the Teins so far after a few weeks driving on them?

[bigbutt]

Now that I have well over a 1000km on them, the ride quality has not detireorated. There has been no noticable settling of the coilovers. I haven't had a chance to mess around with the dampening settings. At 6 from soft the ride is firm not jarring or bouncy. I can live with this setting.

 

A fellow Legacy Owner took the car for a spin last weekend and couldn't believe the difference in ride quality between his Tein Flexes and the Comfort Sports. (Alan if you care to comment)

 

They are ideal for daily driving! I have had a chance to do some spirited driving and the car handles incredibly well. The car stays planted in corners, instilling confidence to take corners and offramps quicker than I did with the stock set-up.

 

I had the car corner balanced and aligned. In this process we raised the back about half an inch. Which has evened off the ride height. I will take some better pictures after I have a chance to give the car a good wash and wax. Hopefully this weekend.

[VTGT]

They are ideal for daily driving! I have had a chance to do some spirited driving and the car handles incredibly well. The car stays planted in corners, instilling confidence to take corners and offramps quicker than I did with the stock set-up.

 

I always hear comments such as this with people who have installed coilovers.... My question is, does it feel like a totally diferant handling machine worth the price of the admission (1600)? Does it handle that much better:confused:

[bigbutt]

I always hear comments such as this with people who have installed coilovers.... My question is, does it feel like a totally diferant handling machine worth the price of the admission (1600)? Does it handle that much better:confused:

 

I have no regrets in spending the money on these. Body roll has been significantly reduced. I am now having more fun and confidence in taking corners and off ramps at higher speeds than I did with the stock set-up.

 

I am as happy as a pig in @#$$ with these coilovers.

[Guest]

I always hear comments such as this with people who have installed coilovers.... My question is, does it feel like a totally diferant handling machine worth the price of the admission (1600)? Does it handle that much better:confused:

 

Much better than stock? Absolutely.

 

Much better than good conventional dampers + springs? Not really.

 

I yet need to post a more thorough review, but I am not sure I really like KW Variant 2 coilovers I just installed better than JDM SpecB Bilsteins+Pinks combo or even JDM SpecB with OEM springs. Somewhat less body roll due to stiffer springs and lower CG, but it's not a night and day difference.

[mudfoot]

when I had my Tein Flex's along with my jdm 20mm rear sway, I would say the car was absolutely better. The car was amazing when it came to handling. At least to me... A friend of mine drove it and thought it had to much oversteer. but I loved it. Definetly a harsher ride over the rough stuff. I drove a Spec B with the JIC coilovers and I think they offer a little bit better damping over the Tein Flex's. Been in a stock spec B.. the bisteins feel good but could use a better spring. Been in a car with bilsteins with prova springs.. these feel good, but there is room for improvement. I'de like to see how this combo would feel with a larger rear sway.. The only other thing I dont like about lowering on our cars is that the rear always looks lower than the front. I know you can put the extra seat in the rear to try and help...i'd like to ride in a wagon with bilsteins & pinks with a 20mm rear sway

 

Is that the Alan who bought my Teins?

 

Enjoy your ride:)

[VTGT]

Much better than stock? Absolutely.

 

Much better than good conventional dampers + springs? Not really.

 

I yet need to post a more thorough review, but I am not sure I really like KW Variant 2 coilovers I just installed better than JDM SpecB Bilsteins+Pinks combo or even JDM SpecB with OEM springs. Somewhat less body roll due to stiffer springs and lower CG, but it's not a night and day difference.

 

never a clear-cut decision:rolleyes: If I found a good price on a set of JDM blisteins then I guess that would be the best way.

 

I figure 600-800 for the blisteins and springs is a good deal considering coil-overs with decent ride quality (KW's , Comforts etc...) are $1300+.

 

I'd Imagine if I found some used KW's or comforts down the road they could be had for under 1000 though, which makes the decision even harder:rolleyes:

 

And when you guys say the handling is absolutely better, what cars can you compare it to in terms of handling (M3, STi etc....?)

[EJ255_alan]

due to Lou's request I'm starting typing in LGT.com again...LOL

 

be4 any of my BS-ing...yeah..i got miy flex from mr. muddy foot =)

 

when it comes to absolute handling comparsion...I'd pick M3 over STI or our LGTs...anytime!...as BMW knows how to do a very refined, communicative chassis for performance driving

 

back to Flex VS CST VS basic

 

compare to my Flex, and previously basic

 

it's slightly softer to flex(w/ flex's spring rate @ f-8kg/mm, R-9kg/mm...CST @ 5k @ frt n 6k @ back, if i remember right) n basic, therefore ride quality is just...u know..just right, you gained handling yet won't lose too much on ride quality

 

it's right at the point of nimble...not as overkilled as my flex

 

on the roads that i drove w/ Lou's GT....the difference is not that huge(mainly on hwys and prob. another 40% on local city streets)....

 

and w/ body roll...it's not as good as mine =) (LOL)....as i have cusco front n rear sways, AVO endlinks and the RSB bracket

 

again...it depends on how much your are willing to spend, and how you want it that matters

 

might have more to say...just need to go to work now...choa!

 

alan

[itsme]

Much better than stock? Absolutely.

 

Much better than good conventional dampers + springs? Not really.

 

I yet need to post a more thorough review, but I am not sure I really like KW Variant 2 coilovers I just installed better than JDM SpecB Bilsteins+Pinks combo or even JDM SpecB with OEM springs. Somewhat less body roll due to stiffer springs and lower CG, but it's not a night and day difference.

What don't you like about the KWs? I went from htechs and stock strut to the KWs and I think they are great. I have cusco F&R lower braces, front upper strut brace, super pro bushings, AVO rsb bracket, whiteline F&R swaybar(set on soft) and 19's with 225/35/19. I have the front set at 12 clicks from hard and the rear set at 14. The ride is very compliant. Bumps are now soaked up that would upset the car. Best f all in hi G turns it's very stable and you can feel the suspension following the road and not making the car lose control. I would say the ride is more inline what and BMW 3. Firm not harsh. Now the response is much quicker and direct. The setup I have now works great no more wandering and constant correction. You hold the wheel and it goes where you point it. It was well worth the money and now the handling matches the stage 2 power. I could not be happier.

[ATB]

I think some of the the differences in opinions may be due the roads we all drive on. unclemat and I are both from NJ, which has some nasty roads. You So Cal and Florida folks have a different concept of "bumps" than we do

[Guest]

Oh, no. KW's ride is very compliant. Actually too cushy. SpecB Bilsteins feel more sporty, while they have bit more initial bump harshness, they also have slightly faster steering response (probably due to soft stock top hats I put on KWs vs JDM top hats on Bilsteins) and bit faster damping.

[mudfoot]

dont forget about the tires... Having a good set helps as well... some tires will ad to the harshness like my SO'3s

[Guest]

dont forget about the tires... Having a good set helps as well... some tires will ad to the harshness like my SO'3s

 

Oh, absolutely. I had RE070 earlier and while handled great, they were concrete hard.

[praedet]

So even at the stifffest setting on the KWs you think they are more compliant the Bilsteins? Interesting. The stiffer springs on the KWs means roll control will be better, and as long as they don't feel underdamped, if the "feel" more compliant, that is good as they actually aren't as a package...